Town Hall Meeting with the UN Secretary-General's Envoy on Technology (Raw Transcript)

The following are the outputs of the automatic captioning taken during an IGF virtual intervention. In some cases it may be incomplete or inaccurate due to inaudible passages or transcription errors. It is posted as an aid, but should not be treated as an authoritative record.

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Paul Mitchell: And okay. So, Paul, Great, Thank you. And i'm a big welcome to uh, to the call, and uh, thank you for being flexible and and willing and able to to take this call. Um as as far as an agenda goes, we we're really hoping to do is have a uh

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Paul Mitchell: discussion to understand your your vision for the the tech envoy how we can work with the tech convoy in collaboration to to bring forward better care Internet governance as a whole uh to service any um

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Paul Mitchell: any concerns that we

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Paul Mitchell: that we have uh that you have um and uh

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Paul Mitchell: leave the meeting uh

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Paul Mitchell: refreshed and understanding how we can uh work together in a collaborative and cohesive way. Um! And the team that you have here. Um! I'll let everybody introduce themselves with one or two two senses.

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Paul Mitchell: Um, and there's not too many people on the call, so that shouldn't take all that long, and and then we could dive right in and um! And have have you talked a little bit about your vision and um what you're looking for in collaborative partnership.

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Paul Mitchell: Uh, that's absolutely fine, Paul. I'm in your hands. So, and follow the session.

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Amrita Choudhury: Thank you, Paul. Um. I'm Lita, for the records and welcome to this call. Um, Mr. Gill, and we will be, you know, really happy to hear from you how you feel that the Igf, and especially the Mac, can collaborate more to, especially uh, with the various initiatives which is second Voice Office and the Sgs office is currently on.

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Paul Mitchell: And just for everybody as you're introducing yourself, Don't, forget to say what your what your stakeholder group is.

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Amrita Choudhury: My apologies for. I'm the I'm from India, and I represent the Uh civil society community from the Asia Pacific Region. Thank you.

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Giacomo Mazzone: Thank you very much.

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Giacomo Mazzone: Jacqueline Matson and

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Giacomo Mazzone: Um currently in Rye, in Italy, represent the media community and always be attending the Igf on. We are for the media community

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Giacomo Mazzone: Uh. What I expect from the conversation today today is to know how we will uh try to combine, divide you such that that are on the table in order to be more effective. But I guess that this is what everybody is hoping to get from this conversation. Thank you.

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Paul Mitchell: Uh Anya.

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Paul Mitchell: I knew we can,

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Chengetai Masango: I think she.

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Paul Mitchell: Okay, uh Pascal.

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Pascal Garde: Yes, uh good afternoon. Everyone. My name is Pascal Gab, and I also work for the Secretary of the Agf. Thank you.

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Paul Mitchell: Why, i'm in.

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Wai Min Kwok, UN DESA: Thank you.

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Paul Mitchell: Adam.

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Adam Peake - ICANN Org: Hi Adam Peak, I'm. Uh

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Adam Peake - ICANN Org: uh member of the Mag and the Been. Uh, I represent the technical community. Thank you very much.

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Paul Mitchell: Uh, Alan.

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Alan Ramírez García: Good morning, Good evening. Everyone

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Alan Ramírez García: and particularly interested in global South approaches and development intervention. Thank you.

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Paul Mitchell: Thank you and

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Paul Mitchell: and

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Ben Wallis: cool. I think you said Ben. Um. I am a fuller Mac. Member. Um, I am in Microsoft's Un International Organizations team to save time. Um, I'm also joined by my colleague, Yoga Ed. Who's in our team in New York,

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Ben Wallis: and i'm very happy to call you from the it Planetary Conference in Bucharest, looking forward to hearing. Well, thank you.

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Bram Fudzulani: Uh, thank you, Paul. Um. This is Brahm uh member of the uh uh

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Paul Mitchell: Bruno

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Paul Mitchell: and Carol.

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Carol Roach: Hello, everybody, Carl Roche um from the Bahamas uh the Government group

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Carol Roach: and thank you for

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Carol Roach: um being with us. We've been looking forward to it. So thank you very much.

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Paul Mitchell: He's definitely.

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Daphnee Iglesias: Hello, everyone. Uh, definitely, This is I'm one of the uh, Igf consultants for this year, and I support the work of the best forum on gender and digital rights, and also the policy network on meaningful access.

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Paul Mitchell: Right there you go

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Paul Mitchell: for D. I go,

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Diogo Ide: everyone. Good morning. I work with Ben and Microsoft. Nice to meet you

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Paul Mitchell: and Uh, Christine.

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Egypt - Christine Arida: Yes, good evening, everyone. This is Christina Ita and I with the Egyptian Government, and I represent Egypt as a former host, So Egypt has also the Igf in two thousand and nine, and thank you. I'm a deep for being with us, so we look forward to here more

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Egypt - Christine Arida: like our colleague. Thank you.

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Flavio Wagner: Hi, hello, everybody! So my name is from Brazil, from the back of the community, and I work as a technical consultant to the Brazilian Internet Screen Committee. Also for my my memory

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Paul Mitchell: Tacoma

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Giacomo Mazzone: to want me again.

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Giacomo Mazzone: No problem. I can introduce myself many times as as much. I was out four times on my screen.

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Paul Mitchell: Okay, um banana.

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Paul Mitchell: Okay, Jim

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Paul Mitchell: and

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Paul Mitchell: Joyce,

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Joyce Chen: Thanks very much, Paul. This is Joyce, and from the Asia Pacific Network Information Center ipnet. Can I represent the technical community on the Mac?

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Paul Mitchell: Okay, Thank you. And uh Kosi

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kossi AMESSINOU: and Hello, everyone.

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kossi AMESSINOU: I represent Government of Finland. Thank you.

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Paul Mitchell: Uh

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Paul Mitchell: soon.

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June Parris: Um, I'm. Just here, really to see what's going on and to update my groups. I'm a member committee member on Sid Ir Pc. And I saw Barbados. Um! I just want to keep up to date

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Maarit Palovirta: this it myself.

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Maarit Palovirta: Um!

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Maarit Palovirta: I will introduce myself. I wasn't sure if you call for me, but from uh yes, from Brussels, and uh representing the business community in the Mac uh I currently working for the European telecommunication. Um uh Operators Association. I'm: looking forward to the discussion.

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Paul Mitchell: Maria:

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Marielza Oliveira: Okay. Thank you. Um Mario. I work for Unesco and i'm a mag observer. As well as a member of the policy network on on meaningful access policy network, on Internet fragmentation and a dynamic coalition on the Internet universality. Thank you,

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Paul Mitchell: Nicholas.

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Nikolis Smith: Hello, everyone! My name is Nicholas Smith. Um. Just a strong supporter of the Igf. Uh. Representing the business uh situation group. Thank you very much.

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Paul Mitchell: Not polite. Yeah.

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Pelagaia Emilia Scholte-Sikorsky: Hello, um! I hope you're all well. I'm peel I gear shelter Sikorsky or Polly, as most call me, and I'm in turning with the igs Secretary. Thank you,

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Paul Mitchell: Nicholas.

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Paul Mitchell: Sorry. That's

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Paul Mitchell: I'll talk twice.

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Paul Mitchell: Uh mark.

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Mark Carvell: Thanks, Paul. Hello, Everybody uh Marcovell form a Mac member when I work for the Uk Government. I'm. Now independent consultant, I'm. Sharing your digs consultation on the global digital compact. So uh

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Mark Carvell: i'd be particularly interested on receiving an update from Herman. Deep If there's time

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Mark Carvell: on the Gdc. Process following the postponement of the some. It took the future. Uh: so thank you very much.

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Paul Mitchell: Raw.

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Paul Mitchell: Okay, Robert.

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Roberto Zambrana: Thank you very much, Paul. I am Roberto Samurana from Bolivia. I am in my third a year as a Mac member, and I represent the technical like and and academic community. Thank you very much. Great to be here,

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Paul Mitchell: Roman.

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Roman Chukov: Everyone uh thank you very much for organizing this meeting, and uh, i'm from uh Russia. I'm used to represent Russia and the Mac Uh, currently still serving as a co-chair for the working group strategy

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Roman Chukov: pleasure to meet Mr. Gill and hopefully uh today we will set some uh good uh directions for collaboration. Thank you,

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Paul Mitchell: Suki.

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Sooki Dofel: Hello, Osula.

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Sooki Dofel: Okay, I think. Can you hear me now? Oh, all right. Hi! From Germany. It's a account uh Mac, member being facilitator for the issue team on uh cyber security, and i'm working for giset

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Paul Mitchell: uh

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Tenanoia Simona: um, I suppose that's me. Um!

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Tenanoia Simona: Is that right, Paul? Okay. It's Tenanooya from uh the Pacific Islands of Valu, our presenting the government of Tuvalum. I'm a currently a Mac member. Thank you

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Paul Mitchell: Mayor.

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Timea Suto: Hello, everyone, Kim. I should a former member, current observer. And in my day job global policy lead for digital economy at the International Chamber of Commerce. Thank you.

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Paul Mitchell: Um

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Paul Mitchell: to uh Tt.

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Paul Mitchell: Uh

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Paul Mitchell: Julio.

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Tulio Andrade: Thank you, Paul. Uh! My name is Suljo Andraji. I'm. Deputy Head for teach to affairs at the Brazilian Ministry of Foreign Affairs, and I'm. Here representing one of the

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Paul Mitchell: study.

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Vadim Glushchenko: Hello, everyone I'm: Vladimir Putin and I'm. A director of the Center for Global it cooperation in Russia. We are the ones who organize a youth igf forum in Russia, and we co-organize and Rai Russian Igf, and as well. I'm a representative of the

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Vadim Glushchenko: prospective host. Country of the Igf. Two thousand and twenty five. Thank you.

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Paul Mitchell: Uh, El Myra.

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Velimira GRAU: Good afternoon. I'm um A. And I work for the European Commission. I'm part of the Internet governance team and um, I'm very much looking for uh exploring synergies for our common work. Thank you.

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Paul Mitchell: And you ping

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Yu Ping Chan: Um,

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Hi, everyone. Um, you nice to see a lot of you again, and i'm the senior program officer in the office of the Tech envoy working for the Usg:

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Paul Mitchell: Did I miss anybody?

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Mattia Fantinati: Yeah, this is me. It's I'm Italian. I I've been a member of the Italian Parliament. Uh. I'm. A member of the Margo for the second here, and I am the chairman of the Italian Igf:

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Raúl Echeberría: Sorry. Go ahead.

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Junko Kawauchi: I'm sorry. So.

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Junko Kawauchi: Okay. My name is Jenko College from Japan, and uh um i'm a I I represent the business Sector. Thank you very much.

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Thank you.

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Markus Kummer: I'm Marcus schumer i'm the Chamber of the Igf Support Association, and i'm also the co-facilitator of the Uh

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Raúl Echeberría: um

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Raúl Echeberría: i'm! Probably to i'm from I have been boarded in uh in Niger from the beginning uh work, and even in the working group on internal governments with Marcus Um, many others um representing currently Private Sec.

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Lynn St Amour: And and Hello, Paul. It's in Saint Amora as well. Um like to say hello and welcome to Amandeep and I'm. A former Mag member, and I was also the Mag Chair from two thousand and sixteen to two thousand and nineteen.

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Tereza Horejsova: And good afternoon from me, if I may. My name is Theresa May, of a current member, civil society from the Czech Republic, currently with the global phone Cyber expertise. Thank you.

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Paul Mitchell: Thank you.

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Amado Espinosa: Yes. Uh third year. The third term, Mac member representing private sector from Latin America. Thanks.

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Thank you.

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Paul Mitchell: All right? Well, obviously, this is a call of of interest with the the

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Paul Mitchell: wide number of people it is participating. I'll turn the microphone over to Amandi and um

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Paul Mitchell: no room go from there.

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Amandeep Singh Gill: Thank you very much, Paul, and thank you for the introductions. It's lovely to see you, many of you we bet in the past. And uh, Lynn, you would remember, uh, September, two thousand and nineteen, when we uh did uh a consultation with the Mac, one of the very first formal consultations that the Un Secretary General's high level panel on

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Amandeep Singh Gill: digital cooperation had um, and so it's it's uh a continuation. What we are doing today is, in fact, a continuation of that reflection. Uh, those who were not part of um.

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Amandeep Singh Gill: That consideration, or have not read Dsts high level balance report. So they was a three hundred and sixty degree. Look at digital. Of course you in the Mac community know about these issues for a longer period of time. The with this process, and how the Igf came into being at the turn of the century. So you've been steeped in these issues, but the wider world kind of woke up to it a little later.

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Amandeep Singh Gill: Uh, and the Ss. Panel was about, you know. Uh waking up the wider policy community to this issue. Um uh! Which is now taking its place among the the leading public policy issues of the times, along with climate change, migration,

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Amandeep Singh Gill: of course, a peace and security conflict prevention.

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Amandeep Singh Gill: Uh: so uh, this is a little bit the background to what we're going to talk about today uh the recommendation on having a tick and more. There was a lot of debate at that time, and subsequently as well. Essentially, the idea is to have a focal point on digital cooperation within the Un system.

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Amandeep Singh Gill: Of course, in the Un. System you have a number of uh agencies, departments uh programs funds who work on these issues on that you ndp uh unesco unicef um uh

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Amandeep Singh Gill: our colleagues at Tesa. So there was a felt need for a high-level coordination point one

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Amandeep Singh Gill: on these these issues, both for internal reasons, but also for external reasons, in the sense uh first port of call in many ways for um civil society, academia. And I see that already, in about the three months that I've been in this role. Not every company is a Microsoft. We have Microsoft colleagues on the call. They have the teams that can maintain layers on with a large number of un organization. But others do not have that capacity, so they need a focal point.

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Amandeep Singh Gill: And internally also, we need to bring more visibility uh political attention resources to the um digital teams within the Un. It's a bit like when President Obama set up the nuclear security summit. Nuclear security used to be the task of You know, these Boffins in the basement uh who, you know, toiled away at keeping the the the world safe. But then, with the summit process,

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Amandeep Singh Gill: and they were brought out into the limelight,

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Amandeep Singh Gill: more resources flow to them

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Amandeep Singh Gill: uh their tasks became more trust disciplinary and coordinated across the intelligence agencies, the non-proliferation experts uh other security as experts and so on. So it's. It's a little bit of that thinking in any case, a number of Member States have now uh digital arm voice Uh chief digital officers, chief data scientists, some Member States, in fact, have many of them. You know the Foreign Ministry will have fun. The Prime Minister's office will have another one,

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Amandeep Singh Gill: so there is that need to coordinate and be um present, and uh, um, and uh, internally as well as externally.

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Amandeep Singh Gill: The second reason why this institution has been stood up is, there is a felt need

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Amandeep Singh Gill: erez agmoni uh on digital cooperation. We have gaps in uh in governance across domains, across the public and the private sector, but also across countries. So you need an active effort to bring people together to address those gaps, those challenges one hundred and fifty,

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Amandeep Singh Gill: and prevent what is often loosely termed, perhaps not that accurately the fragmentation of the Internet space to prevent one hundred

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Amandeep Singh Gill: these kind of shadow areas and governance where uh mistrust uh thrives and where you know sometimes crime and worse uh thrives. So if we are to build this inclusive digital economy for the future, governance will have to be uh at the front and center, and we would need to collaborate around uh governance. Uh so this is uh the other reason. And finally, I think there is this aspect of an opportunity

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Amandeep Singh Gill: uh digital is now moving into these complex domains. So this broad wave front is now lapping up on the shores of health, agriculture,

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Amandeep Singh Gill: uh finance, and so on, where the complexities of that domain are mixing with the complexities of digital and creating new challenges uh on governance, but also opportunities for advancing progress on universal health coverage, universal education, drug discovery, uh climate change, resilient crop for it's by leveraging digital technologies, leveraging data and Ai. And so there is that opportunity space and within the Un system

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Amandeep Singh Gill: we need to be able to respond to that. Uh, firstly, something very basic. And we all know about the digital divide and the connectivity issues with Covid. We saw a renewed interest in digital public infrastructure, and today you have at least fifty to sixty countries who are asking for advice and help

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Amandeep Singh Gill: on digital public infrastructure and digital public. So the Un system needs to be in a in a position to support this demand from countries to help them leverage the digital transformation capacity, development of public officials, ways to deal with the digital divide uh data, governance, et cetera.

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Amandeep Singh Gill: And within the un system as well. We need to come out with the jointed approaches to leveraging this opportunity. So it's not only helping our Member States our our partners, but also helping ourselves whether it's Stt. Twelve and thirteen on the green transition, three and four Health Agriculture. So you see who they, making the effort to see when Dp. Making the effort. So how can we be more

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Amandeep Singh Gill: so uh impactful in that sense? So these are some of the larger considerations beyond this office. So I

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Amandeep Singh Gill: did want to spend a few minutes on this before we dive into the Gdc. And Internet governance issues, so that you have this strategic perspective. So this is not something that's like for one or two years. It's something that uh, uh, is longer term, and so there is an institution building a responsibility that I have, and where all your help would be most welcome within this group. You know, we have formidable

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Amandeep Singh Gill: um intellectual capacity. So yeah, whatever help you can render to my office as we build an institution would be very, very appreciated.

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Amandeep Singh Gill: Now, coming to the Gdc. And the process

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Amandeep Singh Gill: going forward uh the summit of the future. So I don't know if we can call it the postponement. The Secretary General had proposed that it'd be held in the two thousand and twenty-three Member States took into consideration his his proposal, but they also took into consideration the back the agenda for two thousand and twenty-three, where we have the midterm review of the Sdgs, among other things, and decided that they needed more time. And uh, they needed to do this with better preparation.

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Amandeep Singh Gill: Uh and the Sg. Is quite relieved, in fact, that we have some more time to uh to get ready for it. We are also quite uh relieved that we have this now clear timeline. We have the minister in meeting two thousand and twenty-three, and then we have the summit to the future in two thousand and twenty-four

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Amandeep Singh Gill: uh the next eight to nine months are going to be about

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Amandeep Singh Gill: consultations inputs, research finding out

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Amandeep Singh Gill: what is most urgent most important. I was at Bucharest. I think some of you are dialing in from the uh planning port. So we did a consultation there with the Itu community. There has been um uh a civil society uh town hall. Um! There is going to be consultation that the itf. And now this above you know, the five items on the agenda

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Amandeep Singh Gill: closely aligned to what might be there in the Gdc. So next eight to nine months we are going to consult widely these are going to be multi-stakeholder consultations. So we are very clear that this process has to be multi stakeholder, even though the summit of the future is an intercomm into event, and the President of the General Assembly will, on behalf of the Member States, lead that process. But I think the imports the consultations

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Amandeep Singh Gill: have to be multi-stakeholder, and we have to find ways that not only are we going there

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Amandeep Singh Gill: through the multi-stakeholder process, but beyond the gdc that this is a document that can also be adopted by the private sector, by since it by academia. It's not just governments who are the consumers final consumers of the end product, but it's the

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Amandeep Singh Gill: uh the rest of the stakeholder communities. So these consultations are important to us. Um, I'm. Particularly attached to bringing more diverse voices from the global South. Smaller companies when we say the business sector, the private sector, so it's not only

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Amandeep Singh Gill: uh large companies, it's these sm startups as well uh it's also all companies digital. You know. Often we end up focusing a lot on the digital platforms, the giants. But you know there are on this call as well. There are those who kind of coil away

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Amandeep Singh Gill: uh on the foundations. And there are those who are kind of leveraging the digital in their own fields, where they are building other things. But they are you doing doing that digitally? So we need to have a broader conversation, even within the

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Amandeep Singh Gill: uh, the business community. So more diversity, uh more of a fee of the ground. Uh, if the Gdc. Does not reflect what is actually happening on the ground, then they will be a kind of a gap, and that's not good for implementation, or, for you know, motivating people to to land. What is there in the Gdc. Into uh

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Amandeep Singh Gill: practice?

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Amandeep Singh Gill: Uh, there is an open call for inputs on the website. So that's one way of getting inputs in, You know, we are quite stretched in terms of resources. We had a very small team at this stage, so that makes us efficient, and we are also going to be piggybacking on some of the meetings uh, wherever we get a chance. You know I was in Japan recently. Japan is going to be the next Igf uh host

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Amandeep Singh Gill: uh. So use the opportunity to interact with people at the Un. University

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Amandeep Singh Gill: at Tokyo University just to get a feel of what's happening. So we'll do more of this more of the these piggybacking events. Um, you know, Malta and some governments are stepping forward. Some partners are stepping forward to help Germany being one multi another one. So if others in this community.

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Amandeep Singh Gill: Have some,

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Amandeep Singh Gill: let's say some thoughts on this as well.

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Amandeep Singh Gill: Please step forward. Let us know that you will might be doing something where there may be an opportunity to kind of land some unusual inputs. Youth voices in particular, no point in having a summary of the future where you know, we don't have youth voices

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Amandeep Singh Gill: in a meaningful way, so please uh reach out to help out with that. Now, what would the Gdc. Look like? Uh,

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Amandeep Singh Gill: but I mean at this stage. We can't see, then that's overthinking over design top down whatever you want to call it. The Sg. Has uh mentioned seven to eight teams,

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Amandeep Singh Gill: and those are like obvious teams. Uh from addressing the dist to define to uh data protection, giving people choices over the data. I like to call it the data empowerment uh. So data protection as well as data empowerment,

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Amandeep Singh Gill: there is obviously protection of human rights online. There is also the issue of misinformation. This information. Uh: as more people consume information digitally, You know, we we need to be investing time and resources into that.

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Amandeep Singh Gill: Uh, there is also the aspect of digital publications to public infrastructure. I mentioned the spy can demand on that.

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Amandeep Singh Gill: Uh, there's also Ai and uh data. Um, how do we align ai with our human values. How do we align different approaches to the governance of Ai? And often we start to kind of look at our perspective, political economic systems that you know the governance follows from that. But what if we dug down deeper into our shared human values uh

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Amandeep Singh Gill: mit ctl, and and found a way to land those values into concrete principles, and those principles into practice, et cetera.

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Amandeep Singh Gill: There is also an aspect of accountability, because we have here, and on this call different stakeholders, and all of us have a uh governance entities above and around us as citizens. We live in countries with constitution, with laws, et cetera, and we are accountable for our actions. Um companies are also accountable for to their shareholders, for example, on other uh governance uh play.

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Amandeep Singh Gill: So in the digital space. There are some gaps in accountability. How can we address those um, and create more robust accountability mechanisms?

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Amandeep Singh Gill: But clearly, as we move to the next generation of technologies. There is neural technologies. I'm: actually here in Geneva, participating at the Chester summit. Uh some of you may have noticed my remarks yesterday. So it's very important to be mindful

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Amandeep Singh Gill: uh of, Uh. The implications of these technologies, the metavers, and many more that are coming,

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Amandeep Singh Gill: even as we are dealing with uh challenges from the previous generation of uh technologies. So, hopefully, the Gdc. Will give us this guidance uh it Won't hopefully. It won't be a long document. Uh it shouldn't be crisp, it should be implementable, and hopefully it would go beyond principles. We have plenty of principles already. Maybe we can capture them in those kind of common human terms, so that we have a less of a

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Amandeep Singh Gill: about, you know. Sometimes you see principles coming from G, seven, G. Twenty bricks, and so on, and you have common words. But then you have different words. So how can we kind of align ourselves, and not um then be confused either,

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Amandeep Singh Gill: since we are in the context of the Igf. For me, the Internet governance forum has.

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Amandeep Singh Gill: And then we'll always be a very very important multi-stakeholder institution uh the Internet is a global common. Uh, we know, uh, how important it is to our lives and societies. Uh today. Um, The

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Amandeep Singh Gill: The content layer and some other aspects where we need to continue to work together, we need to build consensus. Some of these come up at the Itu. Other set services, some others at different forums. So you are experts and all those. So we need to make sure that the Internet at the end of the day it remains open, free,

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Amandeep Singh Gill: secure, inclusive, and that it helps all of us advance the on the human condition, address our planetary challenges. So let me stop there. Maybe you know, If there is time, Paul, we can have uh

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Amandeep Singh Gill: some some questions from the membership that there's something that is not clear. But uh, just to say that I count on you, uh, please, uh treat this office as a partner in your work.

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Amandeep Singh Gill: Uh the the will is there? Uh the alignment is there? Um! Prior to joining this uh office, I was heading a multi stakeholder institution myself. Yeah, I know that the the government to the world doesn't have all the answers,

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Amandeep Singh Gill: and that we need to work closely in the community. Academia,

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Amandeep Singh Gill: business, sector, civil society, and each stakeholder has their unique strengths, and we need to combine those in meaningful ways to to make progress and shape a bright, inclusive, safe, and uh,

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Amandeep Singh Gill: human rights respecting digital future for all.

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Paul Mitchell: Thank you very much for that comprehensive overview

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Paul Mitchell: a number of questions that I have been raised in people's minds. So i'll just

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Paul Mitchell: look for your hands up

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Paul Mitchell: um! And and just as a as the initial ones where people are thinking.

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Paul Mitchell: I could you talk a little bit about

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Paul Mitchell: how you see the tensions that have have

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Paul Mitchell: crept into the multi-stakeholder system

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Paul Mitchell: itself, and how um

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Paul Mitchell: how you see the opportunity or the challenge in addressing those specific um

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Amandeep Singh Gill: sure Paul, And if you can explain a little more What you mean by those tensions, you know. Give an example or two, and then maybe we can also get in one or two more questions.

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Paul Mitchell: So the the tensions, for example, that have led to

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Paul Mitchell: to explorations of alternative um

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Paul Mitchell: registry systems, alternative domain management, etc. Which have basically sought to carve out um

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Paul Mitchell: uh discussion or management of of these issues in in uh in a more top down manner. Um sort of this, showing the the idea of

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Paul Mitchell: collaboration across um

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Paul Mitchell: across multiple stakeholders that all have that all have a stake uh and and um.

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Paul Mitchell: But in in a

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Paul Mitchell: opposition to um uh

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Paul Mitchell: the pressures to create a more unified system. Instead of

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Paul Mitchell: the the system that we have who are are seeing. Now we're

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Paul Mitchell: we've been able to do amazing work collaboratively without

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Paul Mitchell: in most cases expensive legislation.

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Paul Mitchell: Um.

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Paul Mitchell: But there's been increasing pressure to to fragment, to create islands in the Internet to to shift technologies, so to less open rather than more open.

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Paul Mitchell: Um. And I think the the challenge,

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Paul Mitchell: The question is really, how do we address that big challenge for those pressures strengthening the multi stakeholder system.

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Paul Mitchell: Um, that we have finding places where we can, we can make it more secure. Um

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Paul Mitchell: and more

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Paul Mitchell: uh successful, Although I would argue that it's been among the most successful governance structures ever.

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Paul Mitchell: Um, we see these these pressures,

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Paul Mitchell: you know, continuing.

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Paul Mitchell: And

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Paul Mitchell: um! It seems that there's there ought to be

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Paul Mitchell: uh

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Paul Mitchell: uh better ways that we can address those challenges uh holistically. I'm. Sure we're not doing all that could be done.

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Paul Mitchell: Um! And i'm wondering

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Paul Mitchell: how you see that that system.

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Amandeep Singh Gill: Sure. Um,

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Amandeep Singh Gill: I think I mean you. You provide the answer yourself, and stating the problem. Uh? And the answer is that we need to work harder today. Uh to maintain uh that approach. Um, it. It has worked. It has worked well. So, as a as a practical person,

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Amandeep Singh Gill: you know, I would say what has worked well, you know. Let's try and make sure that it keeps working. Uh, also as a practical person, I see the problems and the problems are coming from. Um, I think, uh

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Amandeep Singh Gill: several dimensions. And yesterday we had a session on geopolitics of Tech. So there is the the political dimension. There is also um, this kind of greater um,

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Amandeep Singh Gill: let's say appreciation uh, or absorption with the economic value from digital uh. So uh a lot of countries want to be able to exploit that value for themselves.

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Amandeep Singh Gill: Um! And they see the humongous market capitalization of you know, uh certain private sector companies, and they think you know. Why can't we have that for ourselves? So why should we? You know we be just uh uh

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Amandeep Singh Gill: customers, consumers of content? Why can't we create our own champions, national champions of whatever you want, call them so. Some of this is coming from fundamental political reasons, others is coming from this appreciation, this uh perception that you know everyone is not getting a fair share, and we need to be able to get to that fair share, and regardless of what the motivation, and there are one or two other factors. Why this is happening. Some of it is

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Amandeep Singh Gill: technology related, and others, and another one important one is related to greater awareness of uh, the uh,

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Amandeep Singh Gill: the personal data, dimension, privacy, data protection we're due to different cultural or political context, I mean, like, let's take Germany, for example, there is a cultural historical appreciation of the importance of privacy.

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Amandeep Singh Gill: So there are those issues that also bubble up and end up in legislation legislative approaches in the Eu, for instance, in other geographies, so regardless of the direction that these challenges, these tensions, as you put them, are coming from.

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Amandeep Singh Gill: The result is that we need to work harder today. Uh to uh keep the multi stakeholder governance paradigm for um, the Internet alive

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Amandeep Singh Gill: Um. And this also means that we have to be more agile. So the Secretary General has spoken about the need for the it of community to go up to the next level through reform, through um, through an updating of different ways of doing things. And we will work together with you on that. Because, as I said, we acknowledged and appreciate the importance of uh,

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Amandeep Singh Gill: this this approach I do hope that the Gdc. Plays its part in addressing these tensions now. So if we can bring the world together. I mean, this is not a good time in many ways. It's a very challenging time for multilateralism.

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Amandeep Singh Gill: If we can come together in two thousand and twenty four.

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Amandeep Singh Gill: Now, if, for instance, the G. Twenty presidencies of India and Brazil and South Africa can kind of push the multilateral paradigm um in the right direction. Maybe we have a better chance of managing some of those tensions. I mean you can't

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Amandeep Singh Gill: do away with some of those drivers. They are there. But perhaps we can find ways to to work together and maintain what has worked well, uh, and what is widely appreciated as having led to this tremendous opportunity uh today.

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Paul Mitchell: Thank you. And now we have some questions

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Paul Mitchell: from the some people to your first, then Jacomo, then Bruno.

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Tulio Andrade: Thank you very much, Paul, and uh, thank you, Dr. Gio, for uh the uh

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Tulio Andrade: great privilege to have you here uh to present some of the outstanding challenges that we have before us within this uh invaluable multi stakeholder a body which is uh demand. Um,

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Tulio Andrade: um! I would have uh some

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Tulio Andrade: um um questions to you when um based on a previous experience that I have uh before joining the Internet governance.

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Tulio Andrade: Uh, I was a climate negotiator for ten years, and um! The issues they are very much similar uh in terms of uh, what we have before us uh as gaps in terms of governance and in relation to what uh the challenge that we had

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Tulio Andrade: uh with climate change before the various agreement was adopted. And um some of the uh key

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Tulio Andrade: um uh

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Tulio Andrade: challenges that I see now happening is um

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Tulio Andrade: the multi-stakeholder approach as being identified as opposed to the multilateral approach.

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Tulio Andrade: When the clear masters that we have to convey

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Tulio Andrade: within governments, But also what I stake, hold the bodies like the mad, is that they are complimentary to each other, and they have to go hand in hand

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Tulio Andrade: actually to prevent unilateral measures

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Tulio Andrade: to uh jeopardize um our common goals when it comes to internal governance. So my question to you would be first of all, uh whether um um

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Tulio Andrade: Uh, there is any plan to um uh draft the narrative in which

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Tulio Andrade: uh, indeed, we can overcome the spalacious um conflict between the unilateral and the inside stakeholder approach, so that we can voice the message that what we have to prevent is unilateral measures.

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Tulio Andrade: And my second question to you uh giving on uh um. Some of the concerns that we have here in the zoom is that uh, both digital divides and uh,

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Tulio Andrade: Internet fragmentation trends. They would pose systemic risks to the international community. And uh, in order to address that uh, we would also need systemic solutions, structural solutions.

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Tulio Andrade: Um and uh, many of these solutions. Uh we see happening by uh addressing some of the symmetries that we've seen

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Tulio Andrade: uh between developed and developing countries,

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Tulio Andrade: um and building institutions that could allow developing countries to represent

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Tulio Andrade: uh collective institutions.

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Tulio Andrade: So my second question to you would be um How would um uh internal implementable manages to make a developing countries more represented? Not only in um the multi stakeholders

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Tulio Andrade: um uh for us, but also in technical groups that are at the very center of the development of rules and technical standards that are underlined.

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Tulio Andrade: Each took off, and it's in each to um

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Tulio Andrade: and and as well. So those are my two questions, and uh and and and perhaps a third one. But I don't want to keep um uh the very

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Tulio Andrade: selfish. But um! It's not very clear to to to us how we could engage with you in the context of um the Igf seventeen,

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Amandeep Singh Gill: right? So uh let me, in the interest of time. Just uh, quickly and briefly answer all those three, I and first one. Essentially, I agree with you. There is no inherent contradiction between

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Amandeep Singh Gill: ere

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Amandeep Singh Gill: to a consultations plus implementation paradigm. So if you build it in a multi-stakeholder manner. If you design it in a multi-stakeholder manner, implement it also in a multi stakeholder manner. This is going to require um a few mindset shifts.

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Amandeep Singh Gill: Um! And uh, maybe perhaps more on uh the Government side than others. Uh, uh, but also on the side of other stakeholders. Uh, because often, for instance, when uh, you know, you deal with uh the private sector or academic partners, you know very, very narrow um uh

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Amandeep Singh Gill: kind of um

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Amandeep Singh Gill: conceptions of what is that play? Come, come up naturally, because you know, as a private sector company you have to make profit you have. You're responsible to to shareholder. You have a business model, and you work with that. But when you are participating in a global discussion where you have competing interest and you have to find the shared interest and move that forward. Then you have to think beyond that paradigm, and

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Amandeep Singh Gill: i'm not sure that everyone gets that.

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Amandeep Singh Gill: Uh. So there is kind of, you know. Yes, yes, we are doing it. But then you know, how are you doing it? So there needs to be likewise on the Government side. You know there are these kind of uh mindset shifts that are required Academic Sector and I've been closely engaged there. So there again, there is the tyranny of, you know, research, funding research, outcomes, teaching and publications.

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Amandeep Singh Gill: Uh. So you also end up having a kind of a business model for research and teaching and publication. So how do we transcend that when we are participating? Uh as a representative of academia in some of these global governance discussions? I think uh the the Mag is an interesting place where you, We can have that conversation. You can come up with some ideas of

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Amandeep Singh Gill: how do we reinforce that jointedness across multi stakeholder uh and multilateral discussions, both discussion and implementation

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Amandeep Singh Gill: developing country conversation. Yes, definitely, i'm committed to it. We will find different ways of doing it. Um! From consultations to implementation uh and um within the team. Also, you know, we will have keep a strong focus on that. Your ideas, your suggestions,

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I would be welcome.

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Paul Mitchell: Thank you. I want to be respectful of your time. We're coming right up on the hour. Um! And we had two more questions from um Chicomo. And for now do you have you have to take those questions? Yes, please let's take them together. So go ahead.

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Giacomo Mazzone: Uh! Suggested for approval, or for starting the process at the summit of the future, because there are some

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Giacomo Mazzone: already some process already going on in some, for, like a uh, the Wto. On digital trade, the the

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Giacomo Mazzone: Council of Europe, or that he's working on the three people at the visual intelligence unesco working on it. Of Ai. We need to use again, sub awards.

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Giacomo Mazzone: Is this something that you envisage? And the second part of the same question is

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Giacomo Mazzone: there there are some campaigns um within the un like uh um, the the

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Giacomo Mazzone: how to connect to the unconnected uh, or even the early warning system by two thousand and twenty-seven. You know, countries of the world are this

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Giacomo Mazzone: within your rather will be part of your activities, or you will look at it from distance.

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Giacomo Mazzone: Thank you.

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Bruna Martins dos Santos: And just to add up to the questions. Thank you so much for your time. I want deep as well.

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Bruna Martins dos Santos: So two very direct questions. The first one is, Um, how do we envision the Gdc process complementing the We is plus to any, because there is a a slight concern from from a few of us that this process is, they can be a little bit redundant between one another. So this is the first one.

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Bruna Martins dos Santos: Um, the second one would be whether you have any plans for using national and regional Igs for Gdc. Consultations, and if i'm allowed the third one is whether we have any dates for knowing the co facilitators for the Gdc:

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Bruna Martins dos Santos: That's all. Thanks

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Amandeep Singh Gill: right. No. So thanks. Let me take them all together uh the um uh, maybe working backwards uh national um registries uh the national Uh uh, um,

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Amandeep Singh Gill: Internet governance forums, regional governance forums. Yes, definitely. I mean abyss. Ababa is an opportunity. I plan to be there in person and then moving forward other opportunities as well, so as much as time permits.

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Amandeep Singh Gill: Um, So I've already been um, you know, virtually at the since the regional Internet governance forums. So you know, these important regional perspectives need to be

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Amandeep Singh Gill: uh brought in. We don't have the dates for the co facilitators hopefully, soon within the month.

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Amandeep Singh Gill: Uh, and they will be co facilitators appointed by this pga. And uh, let's see what happens next year. There will be another, Eg: Maybe there can be some consideration of continuity, but often these are. The one is from the global North. One is from the global South, and you know we'll work with the co facilitators uh the Gdc. And the business plus twenty, so which is in two thousand and twenty-five See, The same masters have decided

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Amandeep Singh Gill: that these two things will take place. So the Member States are the kind of decision makers on on this. Um and uh you. You are aware of the history of uh the with this process

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Amandeep Singh Gill: uh the implementation lines. So I don't see a contradiction. Uh, but uh, i'm aware of some sentiment within civil society that you know there are certain advantages. There are certain uh

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Amandeep Singh Gill: facilitating aspects of uh, the basis process that are not, uh ordinarily available outside. So uh, how do we make sure that those are not uh lost.

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Amandeep Singh Gill: Uh, those are preserved. And how do we enforce some degree of sign energy across these two? And we have time, I think, even in terms of the placement on the timeline. It's not a not such a bad thing, so um very much agree with you that we need to be alert to this aware of this. Um

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Amandeep Singh Gill: work on this um the um the question around uh early warning, you know that's very specific area. So, as I said, we just into the third month of this institution,

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Amandeep Singh Gill: we have some ongoing discussion uh, and thinking on what I would call data Commons. So if you look back at the two thousand and nineteen report the Digital Commons architecture. So in some areas of the Sdgs uh Health Agriculture, Food security, green transition, education and humanitarian emergencies. So we're early warning systems are very important, and they are also important in terms of uh climate change adaptation.

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Amandeep Singh Gill: So there is work on going, and there's some thinking about. How do we take it to the next level?

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Amandeep Singh Gill: Um, the um complex Risk Analytics Fund that you know we put together uh in the Secretariat in New York. So it's already beginning to have some uh investments into some of these data sets that would be needed for early warning, whether it's hunger or some other things. My colleagues that you know, sat by using satellite data, and they've developed a very nice ai tool on um

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Amandeep Singh Gill: predicting the extent of uh floods and population affected in Thailand, for instance. So there are some things that we uh are uh working on already. But how do we get it to the next level in terms of scale, in terms of uh, the the timeline that you mentioned, which is in a few

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Amandeep Singh Gill: a few years. Um,

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Amandeep Singh Gill: i'm just mindful of the time uh the um. The last question was, I think, Jacomo from you, please.

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Amandeep Singh Gill: The Gdc. Is a compact like the migration compact. Uh and frankly, you know, if you think about uh, the refugees compact to the migration compact, the thinking there was like the refugee conventions, they go back to the one thousand nine hundred and sixty-seven, and today you start negotiating a new convention.

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Amandeep Singh Gill: You know that that's not happening. You you, you know you will lose what you have, but you still need to update the thinking on norms and their implementation. Um. And the second reason why this is important is that you need a bigger tent today. Uh treaty making was very much an integral exercise. We are more in the multi stakeholder paradigm today.

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Amandeep Singh Gill: Um,

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Amandeep Singh Gill: citizens are very engaged on all of these issues, so you need a bigger tent, and you need a regular forum, a basis for that convening, and this is where the compacts become useful. So they fill up the spaces around the treaties uh, and allow us to be more responsive to current developments and more inclusive. So that's actually my take on the role of a compact, The e-commerce discussion with continuing the done

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Amandeep Singh Gill: you. They'll be you mentioned you know the work that Thomas Snyder is leading on Ai in the

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Amandeep Singh Gill: uh, in in the European plus space, uh, so others will happen. But you will still need, because there is a large Uh world beyond the specific domains and the specific geography. So you have a role for

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uh, something like the Gdc:

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Paul Mitchell: thank you so much for taking the time to spend with us this morning this afternoon this evening, depending on where you are. Um, Everybody thank you for your participation and for the questions, and on behalf of the Mag, I want to just express my um,

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Paul Mitchell: the collaborative and and service of

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Paul Mitchell: greater Internet governance overall. So thank you very much for, uh for your participation.

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Amandeep Singh Gill: Thank you. Thank you. And if there are any other questions that couldn't be answered today, because the lecture. Please send me an email. I'll be happy to engage Pil actually as well. I I see Raoul had his hand up route. Please reach out. Let's have a chat.

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Amandeep Singh Gill: Okay, thank you.

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But it's this year, Bye, bye,

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Chengetai Masango: Thank you, bye, bye, and thank you all.