The following are the outputs of the captioning taken during an IGF virtual intervention. Although it is largely accurate, in some cases it may be incomplete or inaccurate due to inaudible passages or transcription errors. It is posted as an aid, but should not be treated as an authoritative record.
>> CHENGETAI MASANGO: Good afternoon, evening or morning. Welcome to MAG virtual meeting number 20. This is our last meeting for this cycle, our last virtual MAG meeting. We will meet in Katowice. So just before we start, a reminder that this meeting is being recorded, and there is transcription, and there is going to be a summary report that is going to be posted on the IGF Web site before the end of the week. Please for this MAG meeting we are going to try and use the speaking queue, and the link is being put into the chat, as I speak. So please could you use that, instead of the hand up. Part of the reason why is, as well is that we want to also test the ease of use, and since you are a cross section of the stakeholders, we will be able to get some feedback on that. Luis will give a, as part of his presentation, he will also give a overview of the speaking queue and other technical aspects that are going to be happening at IGF Katowice for the hybrid meeting.
With that, I would like to give the floor to our Chair, Anriette Esterhuysen to start the meeting.
>> ANRIETTE ESTERHUYSEN: Thank you very much, Chengetai. I used the speaking queue. Welcome, everyone to this our last virtual MAG meeting of 2021. I hope you are all well, it's very busy time of the year. I know there is still some anxiety and uncertainty about IGF. But I trust that by the end of today's meeting we would have addressed everything we possibly can.
I want to inform everyone, I wrote in the chat I have to give a presentation to RIPE NCC's meeting later on, and I'll be out for a short while, and then I'll be back. But Chengetai is fully briefed and will take over the meeting while I'm away.
Quick review of the agenda, it's not as intimidating as it looks. We will get updates from the Host Country, updates from the Secretariat, specifically we will get clarification on entry requirements, and on guidelines for session organizers, and on the tools and platforms that will be used for the hybrid IGF 2021. We will also get a update on the communication strategy and what role MAG members will play.
I'd like MAG members to go out to break into breakout groups along with observers, and observers are welcome to join, and we won't have too many groups, but really that will be the opportunity for you to talk amongst one another, and what we would like you to cover is firstly, take‑aways from the introductory sessions, what you thought you learned, and how that can feed into the Katowice Forum and to the main sessions you are organizing there.
Secondly, we would like you to give feedback on the hands up session, the speaking queue, what we use, whether we use Zoom or whether we use the speaking queue, you are experiencing it now so you will be able to give us feedback. This will be a discussion in the mailing list also. Thirdly, in your break out groups if you can raise any questions, any concerns, anything that is not clear to you about IGF 2021, that will be the time. After the breakout groups, we will have short reports in plenary, so please remember for every group to appoint a Rapporteur and a facilitator, to make sure everyone gets a chance to speak.
We will then come back and after the group reports, we will have a update on the leadership panel process, if there is a update, I'm sure there is not a lot to say but the Secretariat will share what they can. We will discuss what MAG members are expected to do during the IGF, and we will talk about the recap session which we have planned and in fact my proposal is that we scrap it. I don't think we need it. I've been consulting, and with various people about that, and then finally number 8, we will talk about MAG members who are going to be on site in Poland, and getting together for some form of meeting and hopefully we can make that hybrid as well. Then we will have update on regional IGF, if there is a update that is important we will cover it. I'm happy to give the floor to our Host Country representative who must feel relieved that we are getting closer to actually doing this IGF. Welcome and you have the floor.
>> Good morning, afternoon and evening. I'm happy to be here at our meeting. I'd like to inform you that we are finalizing all the preparations, we are in good contacts with our colleagues from the UNDESA New York and IGF Secretariat in Geneva, we are working hard on finalizing all the last step, last minute preparations so that you will feel safe, comfortable and very much welcome in Katowice and of course online.
To kindly inform you that we are finalizing the one pager on the IGF Web site, I've received a couple of, many questions on this particular document, we do understand that you have some concerns. We are doing our best to meet them, to finalize and to give a brief information on the Web site, so that you could feel first of all, well‑informed, secondly, the properly informed on the current measures of entering Poland, briefly because I only have a couple of minutes for this particular topic, so just to briefly inform everyone that you will receive shortly, but the details I'm leaving to the IGF Secretariat to explain, you will receive shortly a confirmation letter on, each of you, every participant, every registered participant shall receive a confirmation letter through the Indigo system, this confirmation letter will allow you first of all to enter Poland, and secondly, not to be put on the quarantine, because as far as the situation is concerned, current situation, if you would not have this confirmation letter with you, you would need to be put on the quarantine, unless you would be one of, representing one of the European Union countries or other 12 countries in addition, that are exempted from the current quarantine measures and procedures. With this letter, you are exempted from quarantine. So you can enter Poland.
But, when it comes to the external regulations of the EU, you would still need to meet them, and in order to enter the external EU borders if you are for instance traveling from Paris or from any other city within the European Union, but you are not in that direct route to Poland, but you are traveling through XYZ city, you would still need to meet those external European Union requirements. These requirements also are in line with the requirements that we have for the venue, for entering the venue, so if you are vaccine with one of the four accepted or approved vaccines in the European Union, or you have COVID‑19 recovery status valid for six months, or you have a negative test, either PCR or antigen, you could enter Poland and you could enter the ICC venue as well. If not, you are entitled to have a test which would be taken at, in front of the ICC while providing a testing facility, so I'm not going to say anything more about that. But the price of the testing will be fairly cheap, so we will provide everything that in a separate document which we are currently preparing. You will learn everything in the nearest possible day, so even tomorrow or the day after tomorrow, we will publish everything on the Web site and provide all the information and at this point I do thank you very much, Madam Chair Anriette, for her concerns and for her very good questions. We are doing our best to meet them, to answer them, and to provide some guidance for you. So with that, thank you very much and I'm handing the floor back to Madam Chair and the IGF Secretariat. Thank you very much.
>> ANRIETTE ESTERHUYSEN: Thanks and thanks for putting up with my E‑mails. I can see you have made a lot of effort to organize this specific consideration for IGF participants. I think it's all quite difficult for people to know exactly what, particularly those that have to arrange travel, so I think really work with the Secretariat to make sure that this information is online, and very clear. I hope that the letters are issued quite soon. I think some people start traveling next week, early next week already. So that would be important. Are there any questions about this or about anything else regarding the hosting of IGF 2021? I can't see the speaking queue. I'm looking for hands (overlapping speakers).
>> I'd like to add, this is also a notice that you have to register now, if you have not, because when those letters are sent out, we cannot be sending out individual copies afterwards. Please register now, before we send out those letters. Thanks.
>> ANRIETTE ESTERHUYSEN: Thanks, Chengetai. That also is important then to be registered on the Indigo system as well as on the IGF Web site. But Amrita, you have your hand up, please go ahead.
>> Thank you. Just for record I tried to raise my hand from the speaking queue but I got a error, I think 500 or something. But thank you for all the facilities, I had a query, for example, if I am traveling from say India and I get my RTPC test done normally I think EU accepts 72 hours ahead. Then I land in Poland, and say for example on 5th and 6th is the event, will that be considered, or will I have to take another test? Because each as normally, it's 48 or 72 hours ahead and RTPC would be considered.
>> Thank you very much for your question. Yes, we are of course accepting these measures as stated. We are just currently taking all the questions and queries back to our Ministry of Health in order to have this very detailed and very, of course, specific and short to be honest explanation and clear guidance for you, in order to prepare this information. So if you would be traveling, if you would be having a test, 48 hours or 72 hours, we need to clarify this with our Ministry of Health. But nevertheless, the timing, yes, we accept that if you would still, if this test would still be valid, I mean 48 or 72 hours when you will be at the venue, it will be accepted, but in any case, even if not, there is a very good price for the antigen test, prepared for you. It will be less than 10 Euros to be honest. So believe me, this is actually very reliable price and you will be able to take the antigen or the PCR test even when you will be, for instance, traveling back to your home country, you could also be able to take the PCR test, not waiting for having at the airport at the very expensive price but a very good and reliable pricing here at the IGF venue itself. This is also a good way forward and a good way to meet your expectations. Thank you.
>> There is a question in the chat from Evelyn, what about requirements at hotels for check in and stay, do they require vaccination certificates or anything else?
>> I would need to verify this with them, but I think that there are no specific requirements, if you will be having this letter with you, then this is actually very important that this letter would be written, would be printed out in a hard copy in two language versions, because this letter will provide, for instance, for you the possibility to enter this testing facility, and to have this test. So I would need to verify this issue, but I do hope that there are no more extra requirements, unless others that are already in place, so concerning vaccination, tests, and COVID‑19 recovery status.
But I will be happy to get your other questions and remarks also on this one and I will verify and come back as soon as possible to meet your expectations and answer all your questions on this regard as well. Thank you.
>> ANRIETTE ESTERHUYSEN: Thanks. I see there is one more question from Julianna, do we need the antigen test daily, every day, when we enter the venue, or only when we register on 5 or 6 December.
>> The response is when you will be, for instance, when you take a test before your journey to the IGF, this test remains valid. As I said 48 or 72 hours, we will definitely consult that, and after that, each antigen test is valid 48 hours, each PCR test is valid 72 hours. That is according to the Polish regulations. Every time, so when you will, first of all, arrive on the first day, let's say on the 6th, you have a still valid certificate, you have a test that is still valid with you, so with that, you count 48, well, you have it but you need to take it for instance the next day. We take the test, the antigen test the next day. This test remains valid 48 hours from having been taken. Or you take the PCR test which is valid 72 hours and you count 72 hours after that. I do hope I'm clear on that.
First day, valid test remains valid. The next day, you take a test, remains valid 48 or 72 hours, depending on the nature of the test. You take the next one if you need it, or not, if you for instance leave earlier or you take the PCR test before leaving, and you have it ready for your journey and the test is valid for 72 hours. The options vary on the date of arrival, the length of stay and the nature of the test that you would need, you would require to take, when you will be staying at Katowice. Thank you.
>> ANRIETTE ESTERHUYSEN: Thanks very much, and thanks, Deniz from UNDESA for the clarifications in the chat. I think again we do need this information as well as the time that it will take to get results for both the antigen test and the PCR test. So that those people without approved vaccines can plan, their testing schedule, so that they don't miss any sessions.
Anyway, thank you very much for that. Much appreciated. Any other questions (overlapping speakers).
>> I see a hand up.
>> Please go ahead. Thanks.
>> Quick question, will it be possible to get the official invitation letter this week, or it is scheduled to get it later than that?
>> I can partly respond to that, but maybe I leave it to Luis or Chengetai to respond, to add. I have already received today my copy. But it will be put to everybody very soon, to I think today or even tomorrow at the latest, but maybe let's Luis and Chengetai clarify on this as well. Thank you.
>> ANRIETTE ESTERHUYSEN: Thanks. If there are no other questions, I can hand on to the Secretariat, and then Chengetai, you can also respond to this question about when we can expect the letters and from the Host Country that will be delivered and via the Indigo system and everyone, I want to urge what we have already been told but it's important that you print these letters out, and that you will get a copy in English and Polish and you need to print out both copies. Let me hand to Chengetai for updates from the Secretariat and further information on the letter. Chengetai, as I'll be leaving soon, I'm also handing Chairing on to you.
>> CHENGETAI MASANGO: Thank you very much, Anriette. As well as the letter is concerned, let me consult with or let me inform Luis that he will be telling us when people should receive the letter, when he does give his update on agenda item 3.2. That is the update on the apps and tools and platforms, if you will tell us when that letter should be in our E‑mail boxes and if we haven't received it then, then of course you have to contact the Secretariat and we will see what the problem or issue is.
For updates of the Secretariat, we don't have any general updates as such, except that the nominations for the leadership panel is still ongoing, and there is a very hard deadline for the 29th of November. Please, extension may not be possible. I know it's rather tight for some people, but please could you get all your nominations in at that time, but we can discuss it further when we go to agenda item number 5.
Agenda item 3.1 is guidelines for session organizers. I will hand it over to Luis, for 3.1 and 3.2.
>> LUIS BOBO: Thank you very much, Chengetai. I think I'm going to share my screen, show you here. I'm going to share my own screen, I believe. This is the landing page. Also in the news we have set the dashboard, initial dashboard for all participants to enter into the online participation at the IGF. It's taking a while. Okay. The server is being very slow now, I mean in prior communications with our hosting, but I wanted to show you actually this dashboard, so this basically, it has been set a unique dashboard page with all the information for all participants. This is valid for session organizers, for remote hosts, for speakers, for everyone. It's visual step by step guide to connect to sessions. Now it's loading. This is the landing page of the IGF. Here is the participants dashboard, it's also in news on the main page. If you click here in the IGF 2021 participant dashboard (indecipherable) this is the home page.
(banging noise in the background).
Here is as well in the main news, participant and session organizers guidelines. Basically, the server is ‑‑ this is only now, but we need to be able to show you. I don't know. Maybe with more time, if we can do this session later, Chengetai or Anriette, because I will explain later the speaking queue and also with the app because we have the app and we will be able to share the reasons why we should use. This is another issue which is in the loading the server at the moment and unfortunately, I cannot show.
>> CHENGETAI MASANGO: Luis, do you want us just to go to the communications strategy?
>> LUIS BOBO: Yes.
>> CHENGETAI MASANGO: We can come back to you.
>> LUIS BOBO: Yes, once the server is more stable because exactly now I don't know why it's suffering, in parallel, let's go one section that we can without the need of the Web site at the moment.
>> CHENGETAI MASANGO: You check it out and close some of the browser windows there, because you have a ton open. Okay. Sorry, Eleanor if you are not ready yet but will you be ready now to talk about the communication strategy and role of MAG members?
>> Hi, Chengetai, hi, everyone. It's perfectly fine. I can speak. No problem. I would like to mostly focus on some of the things that MAG members can do to help our communications efforts, but I'll say a few words briefly, for everyone's information, about the activities that the Secretariat is involved in with the Host Country and with colleagues who will be joining us in Katowice to support our communications, UN colleagues who come from both the UN information center in Poland, and from DESA's strategic communications section.
As part of the strategy for the meeting, we are doing a few different things. We will be, as we do every year, releasing press releases, related to the IGF, one at the beginning, one at the end. We will have an opening press conference on day 1 of the meeting, so December 7, and we are working out the details of that. Throughout the meeting week, we have planned daily press briefs, so essentially every day, there will be a 20 to 40 minute gathering with journalists present, where we will give a kind of small recap of what is going on at the meeting, highlights from either the previous day or upcoming highlights, and then feature a special guest from the meeting, so those are things that we are doing to try to strengthen media interest in the IGF, and to make sure that we boost our coverage this year.
I could go on, there are lots of other things that are happening behind the scenes, in terms of what we will do together again with the Host Country and our UN colleagues in terms of social media, graphics that we will use, animations, that kind of thing, but yeah, I don't want to get too much into the weeds. But of course, if there are any questions on that, please feel free to ask, we are happy to answer, even though we are also working on this with others, and finalizing details as we go along.
In terms of what MAG members can do to support our communications efforts, I've actually prepared a little list, it would have been maybe better to share it before the meeting, but I'll put it in the chat now. As some of you or many of you are aware, in our last face‑to‑face meeting, the Secretariat together with the working group on outreach and engagement put together a sign up sheet for anyone interested but primarily directed at MAG members to share their social media handles, so that any communication that we send out, we can also tag you and have that communication amplified. I was heartened to see that a lot of MAG members did already sign up for this, we call it the social media Ambassadors sign up sheet, and periodically the Secretariat sends those who have signed up also communications just as reminders to amplify certain messages beyond the tagging that we do. But if you have not already signed yourself up, as a social media Ambassador, as a MAG member, it would be extraordinarily helpful if you did, we know that many of you are plugged in to lots of different networks and would it really be helpful to us to be able to take advantage of those.
As a first thing, please do sign up to this sheet. The link is in the chat. As a second specific item that MAG members can do, we will be releasing a pre‑meeting IGF guide. This was also done last year. It really synthesizes everything that participants need to know from a programmatic perspective. It really condenses the program in a easy to read way. We want to be able to share that as widely as possible. We are putting the finishing touches on that, but once that is done, we will share it with the full MAG and we hope that you as members will share it in your own networks.
The other element that would be very useful for us to have MAG members share more widely is this same participant and session organizer's dashboard that Luis was going to show you on his screen, because this contains the essential information from a technical standpoint that participants and session organizers need before the IGF, and again the more people we get reading that, the better everyone is prepared. Again, the link to that is in the chat, in the list I prepared.
The next element that MAG members can really help us promote are the session specific hashtags, that I think we have discussed a little bit in previous MAG calls. So essentially, every session in the schedule has its own unique social media tag attached to it, so when the session organizers are promoting their sessions, they can more easily direct audiences to their communications, and also for participants to give input on the sessions, whether they are in the session live, in the sessions live or on site, or experienced the session asynchronously and watched a YouTube recording and they want to give input, they should use these session specific hashtags to make their comments. But again, we want maximal awareness that this is a way to give input on sessions.
Finally, apologies, I'm going on for a while but this is the last point, I promise, we would really encourage MAG members to send to the Secretariat, to myself specifically, for social media, any social media friendly information about your main sessions, so this is a call to those MAG members who are on issue teams and main session organizing teams, we would like to send out specific communications in the couple weeks before the meetings about the main sessions, which draw on the main themes of the IGF and have good concise content that gets people interested in the session. So anything that you think is worth highlighting for social media, please pass it on to the Secretariat and we will be happy to put it on our channels with a little bit of repackaging.
That's it from me, in terms of how the MAG members can help us with communications and work with us on communications.
>> CHENGETAI MASANGO: Thank you very much. Does anybody have any questions, please, now is the time to ask. I'll give it a 6 count, to see, and try the speaking queue (overlapping speakers).
>> I used the raise hand function. I just joined, apologies. On the session specific hashtags, is the idea that the Rapporteurs for each session will then incorporate those comments from Twitter? Or what is the rationale for that?
(voice in the background).
>> Thank you, Courtney. That is a very good question, thank you for raising that. The rationale is twofold. One, that it allows participants who are not live in the session to give their input because normally that would be collected by voice, if they are intervening by voice, by the session organizers or in the chat by the session organizers. So yes, in fact, this input that is given online by those who cannot be live in this session would be then collected by the session organizers for the purpose of their reports. So they have been directed already to watch out for this, and pick up those comments and take them into consideration for the reports.
>> CHENGETAI MASANGO: Thank you very much, Eleonora. Mark.
>> Yes, thank you, Chengetai, thank you, everybody, hello from the UK. On the communications strategy, you mentioned press briefings and so on, yes, very important, daily briefings. I wonder what specifically is planned for day 4, with regard to briefings. Off the top of my head quickly, drawing on my experience working in the G7, I suggested that on day 4, there be a concluding press briefing that is a major broadcast of the outcome of the IGF. And that might involve, I suggest the host Minister, Anriette of course, representative from DESA, representative from the envoy's office, primarily I think, that core leadership group and if there is a designated representative of the leadership panel, perhaps if that is all getting set in place by that time, I suggest that as well.
The key objective there is to explain to the world really what the IGF is saying in terms of outcomes, key points that are going to be disseminated through the UN, and anything about new initiatives, and the ongoing process of the IGF, but the key thing is getting the media to pick up on the outcomes from the IGF, in terms of action orientated initiatives, and where the great focus of the IGF is.
That is my thinking. I hope that is helpful. It may be you have it already in mind. But the final day is so important I think. Thank you.
>> CHENGETAI MASANGO: Thank you very much, Mark. Eleonora.
>> Yes, I would like to respond to Mark because I'm glad he raised this. We are in fact planning something along those lines for day 4, although we are still working out the details, but thank you, Mark. That is very much on our radar, and we hope to make that last briefing as visible as possible, because it will, we plan on making a focus on the outcomes of the IGF.
>> CHENGETAI MASANGO: Thank you very much. Do we have another, any other questions on this part? I'm checking the chat as well. Oh, yes, it's not on communication, but there was a question, it was sent privately to me but I'll answer it publicly as well, that the MAG is going to meet with the Under‑Secretary‑General of UNDESA and there will be a, I don't know if you want to call it an appreciation ceremony, where people are going to be recognized for their contribution to the MAG. We will give you those, the date and time as soon as it is firmed but yes, that is the plan. There is going to be some sort of ceremony like we had in Berlin.
I don't see any other questions. I don't see any other questions in the chat, that I can answer. If not, then Courtney, yes.
>> Sorry, one last question, this is Courtney. Will the audio, is the audio licensed for use under creative commons, because one thing we might consider doing is making that more explicit if so, because I think that there are podcasts and media outlets who might be interested in doing pieces about the IGF if they knew that they could use the recordings.
>> CHENGETAI MASANGO: Yes, we do use creative comments, I forgot on which exact license it is, but they have to cite where they got the information from, and I think that also applies to the audio, and we will just get the exact particulars and make that public and also inform the journalists. Thank you, Courtney. That is a good thing to make that clear as well. If not, then I will ask Luis if he is ready to do 3.1 and 3.2.
>> LUIS BOBO: Yes, thank you, Chengetai and all. Yes. Now I'm sharing my screen again. This is our home page. We have now put it in the news for everyone to start seeing this dashboard which is here, also at the log in page of the IGF is the first button now, it's on top of the, when they register, they receive this link, this entry point to the IGF. It is also here in the landing page. If you click here, you open this page, which is the one that Eleonora was referring before. It has clear steps of how to connect into the sessions indicated, what are the actions needed to get the Zoom links basically. So you know everyone can connect on line, or being in Katowice or being remote they will connect online. First people can open the schedule. Basically, people will open the schedule and when you open a session in the schedule, you add sessions to your own schedule. This is as before. There is nothing new here. With one click, then when people start adding session, I click on this session here, I can go to the other day or opening of the session, I could be interested in, people can go here, add the session to the schedule and create their own schedule, like in any, you add the session to the schedule, you are participant and you can start networking and see who else is going to the sessions specifically, in the same way as if you were on site. If I click here, my name would appear in the session here, with one click only, and here already.
Then the second step is go to my personal schedule here, if I go to my personal schedule I can open it from any session, or also from the schedule there are many links, to go to my personal schedule, I will find the links to connect, the link to connect to the session. As I said, this will be much quicker normally. But basically it's this, you will find the sessions and your schedule here listed all of them, and the links to connect. This is as you imagine the same for the speakers, the audience, for everyone, because this is a unique link that directly registers into the Zoom session with the name, with the unique name that you have in your registration. You don't need to fill anything else. You click, one click here, and the link would appear here. Everything is created, but we only publish the links one day before (indecipherable) several days before but not yet because sometimes the sessions are moving last minute, and we want these links to be used only when they are available to person only, not to be shared. We publish them and people from the schedule can access. The final step, and I have to inform you that included in the trainings for hybrid meetings is the usage of the speaking queue. Today what I want to do, if you allow me, I want to also share my mobile screen and to show you how easy it is to use. Regardless of the issues that we unfortunately have today about the server, which is completely independent, the server is not working, there is several other things we can have back up, we do have backup, but it is not for speaking queue, it is for everything else. If you click here, this is speaking queue, has three quick option. One is to request the floor, one is to be the floor request so public view and the other is for instructions and the same is in the app. Let me tell you the advantages of using the system and using Zoom. When we designed the hybrid meeting, one of the key things was to have the same preference for requesting the floor for people on site and online. If there are panelists for example on site that they don't see raised hands in the room and without listening to the online participants and vice versa, if the panel is online they don't (indecipherable) the devices and microphones, to log in and have issues in the room with Internet or Zoom, Zoom is also only for online participants and have quick and intuitive tool, as for the online meetings, so you can easily raise your hand and put your hand down. But for example there are no statistics of who is the user that has raised the hand, etcetera. It is not only of the name but also all the user information that we have outside as well. The speaking queue that we have designed and improved during the years and also integrated and prepared in the new Web site has also been tested for accessibility. It is very simple and accessible. It has been integrated in the app that hopefully (indecipherable) will be perfectly ready for the IGF on the first day. This has been included in the training, and the idea was always to use a unique system, so never to use the Zoom system, because panelists, moderators can also be on site, and they need to see and visualize how unique speaking queue, but is also projected on the screen.
If you allow me, I'm going to share now my mobile screen. Let me ask permission to this user, okay, to share screen. I need to stop sharing here. I stop sharing. And I will share my mobile screen now. This is my mobile here, I have because I'm in contact with developers, otherwise it's not on the market but (indecipherable) the app is ready, I'm going to open it here. It was open before. Now it will take some seconds. This is the first time I use it, it takes some seconds, but then it's here. It has the typical menu, as you have in applications, IGF sessions and my sessions, this is the schedule and my schedule. This is an application not only for IGF but also full IGF site, newsletter, calendar, etcetera. Here is the room reservations and guidelines. These are the main aspects. Here you see the sessions, you have direct access to the session from my schedule. Here is request floor in meetings. If I click here, you see, I can enter in whatever of the rooms, the room I am, it's very intuitive, here you see the three things, request the floor, public view and instructions, how to add yourself and how to remove yourself. It is easy to use, in the app, I click on plenary room, and you see my user, I created a dummy user which is also present in remote hub so this person can also set that it's going to speak representing a remote hub. Click on hand up, and I appear in the speaking queue. If you go now to the public view in whatever place, now maybe stop sharing this, sharing my screen back again here, here, you see, this is what is going to be projected in the room. This can be used, mobile app, no need to log in or necessary enter into Zoom, if you are in the room, and everyone with their device can see, the moderators in the room can see the device and the moderators online can have it as I have it in any other tab or in the mobile, etcetera. The important point is that this facilitates also access for on‑site participants to avoid them to raise the hand if the moderators in the room and everyone use this system, as you see they are parallel systems, one per each room. They can work in parallel, and if any of you now request the floor, please do so and you will appear here in this. I will see it in my mobile as well. Feel free to use the speaking queue as normal, as has been shared in the chat. Thank you, Laura. Laura is there, Laura has requested the floor. From my mobile now I'm going to, you are not seeing it but I'm back in my mobile and I'm going to put my hand down. It is a hand down button. Sorry. I actually ‑‑ okay. That's all, I remove myself from the queue because I don't want to speak anymore. There will be the moderator, has been included in the trainings already for moderators, for remote hubs, and this operation is easy to use in the app and even from the mobile it's accessible. It is a clean screen. I'm sorry for the problems we had before, it is nothing to do with speaking questions in general, it was unfortunately at that moment. But this is the usage. I see Laura also put her hand down. There is also a moderator that will remove the people from the queue as they speak. The moderators don't need to even take care of that. You will have seen Laura and myself, you can also put your hand down, this is how it works. It is very simple. One speaking queue per room, and then you have one to request the floor so you need to log in, you don't need to put your name, you just log in and put your hand up. There is another view which is just the public view which is a clean view of the speaking queue, no need to log in, this is public, this can be projected in the rooms, moderator or whatever device, and then the instructions. Very easy to use and prepare for having meeting. Moderators have been instructed not to use the Zoom hand and people could raise their physical hand, could use the Zoom, but after (indecipherable) this is the full hybrid with all the advantages that I have explained about getting the statistics and easy to use, accessible for everyone, not only for online participant, not only for on‑site participants.
>> CHENGETAI MASANGO: Anything else to say, Luis?
>> LUIS BOBO: This steps and there are (indecipherable) code of conduct guidelines, hybrid and especially information for the session organizers, we have explained to them this. This is the specific sessions for session organizers, link for every one of them to see the sessions that they manage, so they can quickly go to session they manage, and see questions that the audience or feedback that the audience have sent to them in advance. You have seen this before, when I have been in one of the sessions, if I open the schedule here in one of the sessions. I open one of the sessions in the schedule, and in any of the sessions you can add it to your schedule, and there will show a button to ask questions in advance or give feedback. This is to make a hybrid meeting, so participants, in their time zone, they can raise questions for the session organizers and this will be seen from the dashboard by session organizers. Everything is here, all the quick links, and it has been put, it has been made intuitive. We expect this is useful for participants at IGF. Thank you, Chengetai.
>> CHENGETAI MASANGO: Thank you very much, Luis. Does anybody have any questions for Luis on the system or on anything, any other technical aspect? Let me check the speaking queue.
>> ANRIETTE ESTERHUYSEN: Chengetai, I'm back. There are questions in the chat. Shall I read them for you?
>> CHENGETAI MASANGO: If the person cannot speak (overlapping speakers) we would rather they speak it but if they can't, then yes, please.
>> Chengetai is right, we should speak. I asked a question which was, what is the value add of the speaking queue, then there was a question asking for on‑site participant is it advisability to use speaking queue in the app or can they still use a manual hand raising process, in other words can they put up their hands. I think that is it. There was a positive comment saying the Web site is more robust.
Maybe Luis, if you can talk, there was also a question about, can the Web site carry the load.
>> CHENGETAI MASANGO: Let's, Luis, I hope you write these questions down so we can also get Amrita and Courtney's questions in as well, and then you can answer them in one go. Amrita.
>> Thank you, Chengetai. Anriette has asked part of the question that when we have a lot of load on the Web site, and the app, will they be able to work well? When will we get to test the app as in, I'm sure it must have been tested but if you can try and see how it's working and there is anything which we need to say it will be helpful.
>> CHENGETAI MASANGO: Thank you, Amrita. Courtney?
>> Thank you. Two comments. One, I think it would make sense to have one speaking queue, versus multiple ones. I think it is going to be really important that the moderator put that link in pretty often since the people who join the Zoom call can only see what ever is in the chat, once they join. I know I find it extremely difficult to keep track of that, that link. Maybe make sure that in the materials that are sent to the moderators that includes very prominently the link to direct people to for the speaking queue, I'm hoping that is going to be the same for every session.
Then also, just a question about the Web site since I don't know, I'm sure there is something that needs to be done on the back end with Google, but many of the, every time I've used Google for example to try to find the right page or open up something in the IGF Web site, it takes me to the old site, and when you click for the new site, it only takes you to the primary home page, rather than the redirect for that specific page that they are on.
I wonder and we don't have to explain it, but to make sure that somehow it has been reindexed or whatever with the search engine so that it can be more accurately directing people to the correct version of the Web site, especially as we get closer to the IGF. Thank you.
>> CHENGETAI MASANGO: Thank you very much, Courtney. Luis?
>> LUIS BOBO: Yes, thank you, Chengetai, going by the hand in the room, physical hand, this is the point that with no means, no decision whatsoever we can prevent people to use the hand if they are in the room and not connecting to zoom because they just go to the meeting and not in the room and put their hand up. The same with people using Zoom, intuitively they use the hand. If we want to be hybrid system it was never argued against this that there is only a unique single system, and this system has to be Democratic and common, this is why we designed the unique access and accessible app, clean screen, for everyone from mobile device or single device to request the floor, so the only solution is yes, participants enter, know what is the system that the moderators know what is the system and request participants to please use the system to be hybrid, i.e., of course, I preview that many situations especially in day 0 will still have physical hand up in the room and people will use the hand, but the idea or the requirement was to have this system in place to make a hybrid meeting, a system which puts everyone in the same place and also gives statistics of usage of hands up. Then the load, yes, the hand as you have seen they are simple, no data was transferred, not everyone is all the time accessing or putting their hand up or down, but people accessing at the same time, you know that we don't have so many resources so we request our hosting to put more resources and we do load test, we did some load test of open connections, etcetera. But still, there are server, I receive information it was something with the firewall, we have a machine at the moment and things like this, we have risk assessment, so reduce the risk and to mitigate the impact with back up solutions and also mention the server, many times this is what happens, but it should not happen in the IGF. If it happens we should be able to, we will be able to fix it quickly.
Testing the app, as I said, the app is ready. The app is completely ready as per requirements, we have a last requirement of adding notifications and sending notification that will implement and will be there in time but there is administrative process they have to approve in the market, efforts to make it as soon as possible, we are starting to make it.
I expect it will be in time before the IGF. (overlapping speakers).
>> ANRIETTE ESTERHUYSEN: Sorry to jump in. (overlapping speakers) I'm worried about time. Luis, you will see that there are actually more questions in the chat. Chengetai and Luis, what I want to suggest is that you organize, you can do a doodle poll and for MAG members to take them to a tour of the schedule, and all the other platforms, because MAG members are Ambassadors, and I think if you have MAG members that are empowered and that understand everything, they can show other people. So I'm concerned that we need to address the other agenda items, but I think there definitely is a need to spend more time on this.
>> CHENGETAI MASANGO: Yes. I was going to suggest that when we get to a break out room, it says 40 minutes but we can reduce it to 30 minutes, so that we can ‑‑
>> CHENGETAI MASANGO: Go through the agenda items. Luis, as well, is going to be hopping in and out of the rooms, so if you have any specific questions, you will be able to ask him when we break out into the break out rooms. For this agenda item, this is agenda item number 4, since we have done 3.3 already, we are going to be breaking out into groups of basically six people, I would suspect that will be the best. These are going to be random groups, and we can also, in those groups we discuss, as it says in the agenda, let me get my glasses on, and so it's very important that each group will appoint a Rapporteur and facilitator for the discussion and to take down notes for the discussion, and so for the discussion, as it's written in the agenda here, take‑aways from the intro sessions, doing the preparatory and engagement phase, feedback on the speaking queue tool versus the hand up in Zoom, which one is better, we have heard Luis, he has told us the advantages of the hand up system, but then there is also the advantages of the Zoom, it's in built, it is not a separate application, etcetera. So you can discuss that as well, and give us your feedback on this, because you are representatives of the users as well. Then if you have any outstanding questions and concerns and suggestions for IGF 2021, I mean, we may not be able to go through all, answer all these questions at this present moment in time, but we will be answering because the mailing list is still active, etcetera. So Luis, is it possible for you to randomly break us out into groups?
>> LUIS BOBO: Certainly. There will be six groups.
>> CHENGETAI MASANGO: Yeah.
>> LUIS BOBO: Right now. Open and after 30 minutes, we can come back or maybe less.
>> CHENGETAI MASANGO: 30 minutes and we will pace these questions, and as I said, we will be jumping in and out of each of the groups, so you could ask us questions when you want to.
>> LUIS BOBO: You can request me, okay.
(Breakout rooms, I'm told I don't need to caption.)
(Zoom kicked me out, reconnecting after breakout rooms.)
>> Can we have the next group?
>> Hello. Hi, this is June. Thank you very much. I'm not sure what turn we are in to speak, is it okay if I speak now?
>> Are you Rapporteur, June?
>> Yes, please go ahead. We don't have a sequence, I'm relying on everyone to volunteer. Please go ahead.
>> The pre‑session, I was involved with the SHIR and it came off well in the end, there was some anxiety prior to the session but it was okay, it came out fine. I was quite pleased with it. We just need to be a bit more on the same page for the next time. Everybody doing the same thing. But as I said, most of the time, it has not been easy for new MAG members this year, because like myself, we met three times a year, and we had people who mentor us and people to follow and people who knew how things were done. So it was a lot easier for previous MAG members but this year it has not been easy. I want to also add, a lot of what Amanda said previously also, a lot of things are still not clear. People don't understand how this thing works. So it's, I will like to say to most of the people present, people who are listening in, that the only way to know how to use it and get it work is to practice. I practice almost every day. I get things like error messages and crashing Web site, that sort of thing. But what I want to say for 2021 is that it should be a lot easier in Poland. The problem will come about for those who are working remotely. We have to publicly, session leaders have to have another meeting with the members an go through all this stuff to familiarize people with how it works. For me it's getting easier because I'm practicing. Other people need to practice as well. So that it works in Poland and things don't go wrong. Of course things will go wrong but in Poland it should be a lot easier because there is people around who know how to operate system and there is lots of help around and when you are with your colleagues it's always a lot easier. What we just, the advice that I'm going to give is just to practice and navigate the Web site until you are really good with it. And I think that is about it.
>> Shall I go next, Anriette, for my group?
>> ANRIETTE ESTERHUYSEN: I couldn't hear you.
>> Can you hear us now?
>> Which means it's probably in the chat.
>> CHENGETAI MASANGO: Can you hear us now?
>> I can hear you.
>> CHENGETAI MASANGO: As Mark is going next.
>> ANRIETTE ESTERHUYSEN: Can we have the next group report, please?
>> CHENGETAI MASANGO: Mark, please.
>> Chengetai, please take over. I'm going to leave and come back. That will probably fix my connection.
>> Go ahead, okay. Yes. In my group, there was Paul, Laura from European Commission, Julianna, is that everybody? I don't know. Anyway, on the first topic about the introductory phase, we had some discussion on that, based on my experience, to be honest which is that it was I thought conceptually very important to the IGF to do that, to fire up anticipation, for the IGF event and for newcomers especially to be, to get some sense of the key issues, key challenges, the key problem areas that need resolving, and how multistakeholder discussion can best help resolve those challenges. And also, secondly to get a better understanding of impacts of new technologies in terms of digital cooperation and I didn't mention it but also Sustainable Development, and possibly the world not being left behind.
Paul and I attended some, we both wondered about how much impact the introductory sessions have had, in terms of numbers attending the diversity of attendance, how many were new, how many were old hands, talking to people that they had already been talking to, and so I think building on the experience this year, it will be useful to get some sense of how the outreach did create an audience that was going to benefit really from these introductory sessions. On the speaker queue thing, we talked about the app providing more management of the process, especially if we are anticipating some sessions having, with a lot of demand from the floor, from the audience to speak for people to say, to ask questions or to express their views. And an app which creates the transparency of the queue and ensures fairness of who goes next, and also, allows the moderator to manage it, and anticipate a cutoff point, you know, which if you got 20 people lined up to speak, the moderator could say, five more people can join, then in the interest of time we have to draw a line. You can do that, I think more successfully with an app rather than with Zoom, which is, I agree, very easy and friendly, but perhaps less manageable in a fair and transparent way. That is what we talked about. We didn't really come down either way. But the benefits of an app might outweigh the slight inconvenience of having to work two windows if that is what you have, I experienced other meetings like at the ITU where you have to do that and gradually you get the hang of it and it goes well. Anyway, that is just my experience.
Third point about outstanding issues, the one issue which Tam raised on behalf of ICC was how are we going to conduct remotely bilateral meetings one‑to‑one interaction, networking, seeking out people to talk to, to mimic what we would do in a physical meeting, where you hunt people down, grab them and say, come and have a coffee, let's talk about this, because it's important, how do we do that, when engaging remotely with the same objectives, because the IGF does provide rich opportunities to talk to different people in the margins if you like. I covered everything we raised. If anybody in the team, in the group wants to mention something I might have missed.
>> ANRIETTE ESTERHUYSEN: Thanks very much for that, Mark. And everyone in that group. That question still came up from one of the earlier groups. Who is next, who is reporting after Mark, I'm worried about time. Please let's move to the next group.
>> I can give a brief update on our group, because we are quite small. We had a brief discussion on the first question, conclusions were mainly that the session organizers are appropriately well placed to decide and feed the outcomes of their session into their own main sessions. But then moving to the second question, I will not repeat what already has been said. But some additional questions were raised about using two environments, having to switch from Zoom environment to the Web site, so that might be tricky to, for participants to use it and something new I didn't hear yet was that there were some concerns about sometimes speaking queue being delayed so that it's not immediately visible if somebody has raised his or her hand. But that I think brings us also to the last question, that is related, that even whatever system is being used for interaction or raising hands, it was underlined there is a very important role for the online moderator, so that this person should be ready and be well prepared to give very clear instructions in the chat, in the Zoom chat, and maybe even at the beginning of the meeting, on how people have to raise their hands. It is probably more important than the choice of which one is chosen. That is the update. I don't know if any of the group participants have anything to add. I see no reaction so that's it for group 6.
>> ANRIETTE ESTERHUYSEN: Thanks for that, sorry, I was typing away taking notes. Is there another group? I think we have one more group, unless I am counting incorrectly.
>> CHENGETAI MASANGO: No. One of the groups we redispersed.
>> Perfect. That was it. Thanks very much, Chengetai. Secretariat, I suggest that you, and I know that you always take brilliant notes so you document all of those questions, and my suggestion would be that on this question of Zoom versus the app, that we ask the MAG working group hybrid to make the final recommendation on that to the Secretariat. I think it seems to me most people feel in favor of Zoom, but there was some good comments and good justifications for using the app. I think there is also the point about the training, but I do think we need to make a decision. I think that is very important. I think we need to keep it simple and we need to also consider the chat moderators having to look at different platforms. Chengetai, my suggestion is that you and I and Luis check in with the hybrid working group, just so that we can finalize this decision.
If anyone objects to that, please let me know. Chengetai, are you happy with that as a next step?
>> CHENGETAI MASANGO: Yes, I'm totally fine with that.
>> ANRIETTE ESTERHUYSEN: Good. Let's go through our agenda. I felt very bad that my last MAG meeting might end late. Our next item here is item number 5, update on the leadership panel process. Chengetai, I'm sure that won't take long. Do you have any updates.
>> CHENGETAI MASANGO: No. Just what I said is that 29 of November is the deadline, and it is a fairly hard deadline. The Secretary‑General's office is very reluctant to stretch it a little bit more. So please try and get everything in by the 29th of November. And that's it. Yes. They are coming in.
>> ANRIETTE ESTERHUYSEN: Good. Please, everyone, if you have questions, raise your hands in Zoom because at this point in time, that is I think quicker and easier for me. The next item is what is expected of MAG members during the IGF. This is actually very important. I actually would suggest that rather than us spend a lot of time on it now that we ask the Secretariat to, and the Host Country, to share with us in an E‑mail thread or to draft a little document, I volunteer to work with you on that, so that we do give MAG members very clear guidelines on what is expected of them, do they need to be involved in press briefings or not, what do they need to attend. MAG members, I encourage you to share your questions, and within the next week, we will share something on the list that responds to that question. Is that acceptable? Does anyone object to that? I don't see any hands.
The next item here is, item number 7, organizing the recap session of the preparatory phase, that was a session that we had planned. But when I started looking into it, and talking to session organizers about it, it seems to me that most organizers of sessions during the preparatory engagement phase are doing a recap in their sessions, at the annual Forum. My proposal actually is that we scrap that. I think in future, it might be a good thing to do that if we have a more integrated approach to the preparatory engagement phase, but my sense is that this year, that is not really going to add particular value, but there might be other perspectives on that. I open the floor here, I'd like to hear what MAG members feel about that. Does anyone feel that we still need to organize this, overview, scrap it says Carlos Alfonso. Courtney, what is your view?
>> I think that given that this is a new approach, and integrated into the main session, figure out how to [inaudible] others won't.
Seems like everyone is starting from the same page would be helpful.
>> ANRIETTE ESTERHUYSEN: Courtney, are you suggesting we scrap it or do the recaps in the main sessions?
>> ANRIETTE ESTERHUYSEN: I agree. I think Amrit saying the same, thanks for that, that is my feeling as well, I do urge MAG members to, you can revisit this next, you might want to do it a little bit differently next year. But I think that's the right approach this year. The next item number 8 MAG members getting together in Katowice for face‑to‑face dinner or some meeting or gathering. I'd like to organize that. I'll circulate a doodle poll with you all at some point. I think it would be good for us to get together, at least take pictures (overlapping speakers).
>> CHENGETAI MASANGO: When we meet the Under‑Secretary‑General and get appreciation for outgoing MAG members.
>> ANRIETTE ESTERHUYSEN: Yes, maybe we can have a social event after that. What you will learn, MAG members, is that one of the expectations is that MAG members participate in a consultation, we will meet the Under‑Secretary‑General who will be the right person, perhaps we can use that occasion after that to, or to organize a social event of some kind.
So that I undertake to work with Chengetai to make sure we organize that. Mark is asking a question, how about a short recap document. Mark, the documentation is taking place. I already checked with Wim and Serena, they are capturing the reports and thank you very much MAG members for sending your reports on the preparatory engagement and sessions. All of this will be available in the meeting material, and can also be added to the main session pages. Definitely, we will use that material and make it available. Adama, I'm reading your question. She says it's important to keep it simple and accessible, if we are to use two applications between the physical participants and online participants but being made to understand that physical participants will not have access to the Zoom call might actually limit access, and jumping between applications to keep track of participants.
>> CHENGETAI MASANGO: I don't see how, sorry, they have access to the Zoom call.
>> ANRIETTE ESTERHUYSEN: Yes, but the value of the speaking queue app is that face‑to‑face participants do not have to log into Zoom. I'm not sure that is a good idea. We want everyone to be in Zoom because otherwise, our on‑site and our virtual participants cannot connect with one another. But look, Chengetai, we need to close the meeting. Adama, thanks for that comment. I think that what we need to ask the Secretariat is to have this consultation with the hybrid meeting, hybrid working group and then we need to give everyone a clear explanation of what will happen and why. Zoom in the room creates problems, the hybrid working group needs to discuss this because they were anticipating that they would be Zoom for everyone. We do need to close this issue and do it properly.
I know we are a little bit after the hour. But I'd like to give the floor now to Anja to give us a update. I don't think Anja had a opportunity to update us for a while. If there is any important updates from your end, please go ahead.
>> Thank you very much. The updates to be made [inaudible] I will confirm the main session [inaudible] this year, like in previous years it's going to have like a Open Forum in terms of the moderator [inaudible] will be trying to facilitate the dialogue without any preassigned speaking spots. The idea is to have a more dynamic dialogue on the role of the Internet in times of crisis.
The traditional NRI coordination session, that is important update, probably some of you know what is happening on the last day of the meeting with the active enrollment of the MAG Chair, the MAG members willing to participate, donors, supporters, with NRIs [inaudible] anyone interested, will be [inaudible] Day Zero, technically we will enter the meeting with discussing what is being done so far in terms of the NRI sustainability of support and what could be done from onwards. I'm hoping as focal point that session could prompt a number of bilateral meetings to happen throughout the meeting. That was maybe the value that we didn't have in the previous meetings, so thanks to the wise advice of the NRI colleagues we are moving it at the beginning. Then following up with a set of bilateral meetings which hopefully will be scheduled ad hoc at the coordination session. In addition, the NRI is organizing five collaborative sessions, they are also fully finalized, with a good portion of speakers will be present on site, very diverse speakers. Everything is I think explained in the schedule on the NRI's page and IGF Web site. You are welcome to take a look. This week on Thursday, at 6:00 p.m. we are going to have the very last call of the NRIs before we meet for the IGF in Katowice and on line for those that will not make it there. On this week Thursday we will polish all the details and update all the pages.
After that meeting, the calendar invites, NRI sessions will be sent to the mailing list. If you are interested, I think that is the good address to find everything related to the NRIs on that page. Finally to update that the NRI's main session and coordination session will also include a quick presentation on what were the policies discussions in 2021 at the NRI level and how are those findings compared to 2020. That will be a compendium of the discussions that took place this year compared to last year. We are hoping to have exciting findings in terms of how the priorities were changing this year, especially in light of the COVID‑19 pandemic.
>> I agree, it was an excellent decision to move that coordination session. I urge MAG members to attend. Listening to NRI and being in the discussion, the Dynamic Coalition session, feedback session, that we had earlier, it was last Friday I think, and there is also a expression of need or interest from Dynamic Coalition members, to work more closely with the MAG, not to lose their independence, but to have more engagement with the MAG.
Mark is asking is there a single source of advice on how to connect with individuals attending the IGF, and how to set up ad hoc bilateral meetings in side groups. Chengetai, can you respond to that question? It's important that we cover it before we close.
>> CHENGETAI MASANGO: I'm going to pass it to Eleonora.
>> ELEONORA MAZZUCCHI: Hi, thank you, Chengetai. I'm going to share the link in the chat for the bilateral room reservation system. It's very easy to use, if there are any questions, please let me know.
>> ANRIETTE ESTERHUYSEN: While Eleonora brings that up, remember also that Luis talked about the dashboards earlier and showed you the participants dashboard, and there is a session organizer dashboard. Mark, on that participant dashboard, I think you will already find information on how to connect with individuals, but Luis, maybe you can also make sure that the dashboard is able to respond to Mark's question very clearly, if it doesn't already.
That's the procedure for booking bilateral rooms. Mark, are you covered?
>> Yes, thanks very much, Anriette and Eleonora, very helpful.
>> ANRIETTE ESTERHUYSEN: The question which I heard in the breakout groups as well is that people are concerned about how networking will be facilitated in the context of the hybrid IGF. There is also the working group hybrid has a plan to work with [inaudible] this is a area we need to continue to share information on, and we could have a optional call for MAG members who wanted more information on the networking aspects.
Courtney, you had your hand up. If there are any other people who want to make a contribution, now is the time. Courtney, please take the floor. Courtney, did you lower your hand? I'm just looking. I think she had to leave. I think she had to leave, I'm so sorry, she did have her hand up.
Any other hands, any other contributions? I don't see any other hands. I want to thank everyone, I want to thank the MAG members, the observers, the Secretariat, the scribes, and we asked a lot of questions today. I think we have documented, we have got a list of questions which I think can all be addressed through clarifying information and putting information on the Web site, and making everything very clear in that way.
Please continue to use the MAG mailing list for the questions, uncertainties, this is not a easy thing we are doing, organizing a hybrid meeting is immensely challenging. It's challenging for the MAG, the hosts, the Secretariat, for everyone. But we are almost there, and I'm sure that it will be a great success. So thanks, everyone, for your time and your effort, and see you online, and some of you in Poland. Safe travels, for everyone who will be traveling. And I've traveled quite a bit myself recently, so I really want to tell people it's easier than you might think it is. It's safer than you think it is. Be careful, but don't be intimidated by it.
Thanks, everyone. Chengetai, confirm this is our last meeting. Bye‑bye, everyone.
>> Thank you very much. Take care.
>> Thank you.
>> Bye, everyone. Kudos to the MAG 2021.
>> Thanks, bye‑bye.