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2015 11 12 WS 110 “Internet Plus” to Fuel Industry Evolution Workshop Room 1 FINISHED
 Welcome to the United Nations | Department of Economic and Social Affairs

The following are the outputs of the real-time captioning taken during the Tenth Annual Meeting of the Internet Governance Forum (IGF) in João Pessoa, Brazil, from 10 to 13 November 2015. Although it is largely accurate, in some cases it may be incomplete or inaccurate due to inaudible passages or transcription errors. It is posted as an aid to understanding the proceedings at the event, but should not be treated as an authoritative record. 



>> ANTONIA NAN CHU: Hello everyone.

Can you hear me? Sorry, but my presentation just died. So I'm going to need maybe one more minute to restart it. Then we will begin the session.


Okay. I'm ready. Are you?

Good morning, ladies and gentlemen, and hello everyone. Welcome to the IGF 2015 workshop number 110. It's about Internet Plus to fuel the industry evolution.

I'm happy to be the Moderator of this workshop. Thank you all for coming. My name is Antonia Nan Chu.

So this workshop is focused on the concept and practice of Internet Plus. First of all, as the Moderator, I'd like to extend a little bit about what Internet Plus is.

So as you can see on the slide, Internet Plus is a very popular and well-accepted concept in China in these two years. And earlier this year, in the report on the work of the Government, the Prime Minister Keqiang Li of China explained what Internet Plus is, it's to tactically integrate mobile Internet, cloud computing, and the Internet of Things to encourage the healthy development of eCommerce, industry or networks, and to help Internet companies increase their International presence. So that is how the Prime Minister Keqiang Li explained Internet Plus.

But I believe that Internet Plus is sort of just a concept or term. Because in different countries and different places of the world, actually, I'm sure that every Government is doing and is developing Internet and integrating it with other industries.

So this is what we are going to talk about.

So after the presentation and the free discussion, during the free discussion session I propose the four questions for you to consider for our panelists and also for our onsite audiences. First is about which successful experiences and scientific methodology can be shared on the Internet Plus mode.

The second question is what are the obstacles when the traditional industry is upgraded by Internet?

The third question is how to promote and optimize the effect of Internet Plus through enhanced cooperation.

And the fourth question is are there any risks for Internet Plus, such as widening digital divide, information security risks, et cetera?

So I'll invite you to answer these questions and also on our right coming up presentation.

So let me introduce about our panelists today. We have Ingo from Telecom. And also Liyun Han from CNNIC. And also Tereza from the DiploFoundation and Michael Kende from ISOC. And Mikhail from the National Research University. And we have Dr. Ning from CNNIC. We have Tomas from ITU. And also Doctor Lee. And also Mr. Michael Nelson from Cloud Flare. And Ms. Ana from FCT. Welcome.

So this is how we are going to run this workshop. The first part is warming up, which is what I'm doing right now. After that, we will enter the second subsection, which is a presentation demonstrating the concept of Internet Plus. And the third section is just a short discussion about sharing the best practice concerning Internet Plus. And during the subsection, it will be a round dialog and free discussion. After that, we will come with the Q and A and a very short wrap up.

So let's waste no time and let's enter the second subsection.

I'd like to invite Dr. Liyun Han from CNNIC to share experiences on the Internet Plus.

>> LIYUN HAN: Hello. Right now it's my floor. So right now it's my floor, so today I will share some conception introduction of Internet Plus. Because you know Internet Plus maybe is a new notion at the IGF conference. So I want to show the blueprint of the Internet Plus.

All right. The slide is ready.

So as we know, Internet is a miraculous change inhibiting a revolutionary force. So it changes the way we think and believe and live life. So as for China with the Internet's integration into various industries, we have witnessed the birth of the concept Internet Plus. So what is this idea about? Where does it come from? And how can it fuel innovation of industry, ecosystems?

So let's review this. Here is the time line too show how Internet Plus evolved. Actually, firstly, the first person proposed the Internet Plus is the CEO of a company, it's a consultation company called Analysis International Company. And the CEO, Yu Yung, said Internet Plus is a chemical formula. It means transplatform cooperation. And after then, the concept evolved further and many think tanks in China developed this concept.

And in 2014 it was stressed, the importance of the Internet Plus, and he said it was to use and apply the Internet technology to integrate traditional industry and evolve the industry upgrading. And after 2014, this year, in March, our Premier Minister Keqiang Li delivered this concept in our Government work report, saying that China will develop the Internet Plus Action Plan. That stands for the conception is escalated to the national strategies.

And so according to this timeline, we can see that the conception was originated from the individual and developed to the think tank and enterprises. Finally, it adopted into the Government report. And in the report the Internet is elaborated as follows: To develop the Internet Plus Action Plan is to integrate the mobile Internet cloud computing, big data and the IoT with manufacturing and to encourage the healthy development of eCommerce, industry and network, and to help Internet companies increase their International presence. That's the sentences in the report.

And from this slide. We can see that what is the Internet Plus? When people are thinking about the new things, there is always concern of confrontation with the tradition. However, Internet Plus is the integration of Internet and traditional industries through online platforms and information technology. So it is expected to help economic restructures and improve people's livelihoods.

So we can see, one side is the traditional manufacturing, and the other side is the high tech industries. But between the two things there is no gap because we use the -- we correctly used and put it into the ecosystem, and integrated -- and integrate them together to make the Internet Plus magic.

So next one. According to the Internet Plus Action Plan, the Chinese Government issued a guideline of the Action Plan. In the guideline they propose that 11 fields can be fused by the Internet technologies. And here I categorize the 11 fields to the four aspects. We can see society, economic, environment, and technology.

So the first one is the collaborative manufacturing. I think you can get the meaning from the words. And the profit service. Advanced the logistic. And convenient to transportation.

In the economy, we encourage the entrepreneurialship and innovation and the inclusive finance.

The third one is the eCommerce.

And in the environment we use the Internet technologies integrated with green ecology and modern agriculture.

The last one is the technology. Including the intelligent energy, inclusive finance, and the artificial intelligence.

So we will see that the Internet -- the soul of the Internet Plus conception is to let the Internet technology escalate from the conception to the production. This means the Internet technology is not merely the technology. It created the new productivity, and even to create a new civilization. So we can see that from the inspiration to the innovation and to the integration finally we will realize the informalization.

So the next slide. I will show some similar notions, similar ideas of the Internet Plus. Because the Internet Plus is the Internet with integration of -- integration of Internet with industries is not particularly used in China. And in Germany and in the USA, they use the similar idea to boost the Internet economy. Such as in Germany there is the industry 4.0, and in the US there is industrial Internet. So maybe in the next sub session we will invite Ingo to elaborate the Germany industry 4.0.

And here I show -- I will show some of the differences between the three models. In the first one, it's the Germany industrial 4.0. Actually, Germany has been a manufacturer industry and have a way over centuries. So the industry in Germany is well developed. And based on this well developed status, they can -- they use the 4.0 model to boost the smart factory and integrate Internet technologies to the smart factory. And from the overview, to see the industry from the top of the structure, use the technology to innovate the -- to make the innovation.

And next is the US industrial Internet. What about the United States with the advantages of leading Internet companies, such as Google, Microsoft and Facebook? They can easily merge the power of intelligent devices, intelligent systems and intelligent automation. And they put more emphasis on the industrializing productions, manufacturing and computing.

Next we will introduce the China Internet Plus model. Actually, China is a Developing Country and we have a very huge population. So our industry is the population motivated. So the Internet Plus model is initiated as a bottom-up model, due to the differences on the historical background. So we focus on a human basis, because the next slides I'll give you some experience and examples, such as we use the Internet to integrate the smart transportation and eCommerce and the education, including many broad fields in this field.

And we -- and our Internet Plus model is motivated by the enterprises, especially by the medium- and small-size enterprises. So we have the enormous potential market in China.

Yes, here I gave you some example. Sorry. Sorry. You can't see this, the last slide. Okay.

Here I give you some examples in China. The first one is the famous group Alibaba Group. And the second one is the DIDI Company. It's Internet Plus transportation. And the third one is Fore Steel. It's the eCommerce for the energy on steel.

In the example of Alibaba, we can see the brief part. That group is the biggest China online commerce company and the biggest shopping search engine and the largest IPO in history. In this model, we can see that the Alibaba initiated a service model like consumer to consumer, business to consumer, and business to business. But Alibaba did not stop at the eCommerce platform. Right now they are starting some virtual finance and the third-party payment, online payment system.

So the next one is the DIDI company. You can see this -- sorry. You can see this photo is the strength picture of the application. When we use the DIDI application, we just locate myself -- I just need to locate myself, and type where I am. And just type where I'm going to. And the system and the application will find a nearby transportation, nearby taxis, and special shuttles or some DIDI buses to bring me to my destination. So it's very smart. And especially in China, you know, we have a busy time in the morning time. So this is very convenient.

The next slide is the Fore Steel. It's a leading domestic steel industry chain and electric business. So we have a network of the steel in eCommerce in this application. And this application and this website were set up with this model based on big data, cloud storage, and large stake distribution -- multi stake distribution to realize the maps of the steel shopping online.

So the next one is the Internet Plus agriculture. You can see -- you can see this picture. The smart agriculture means to integrate the mechanic production and the automatic supervision and industrialized cooperation and digital farming. We can see this picture means based on the Internet controlled system, we can realize the irrigation without any persons on the machine. And use this device to make the irrigation and digital farming. So that is the examples in China.

I choose some typical examples, but not all of them. So I want to share some experience here to inspire the insightful views from all of you.

Okay. And in the last part is the four questions. Maybe we can talk about the questions in the sub session. Okay. Thank you, everybody.


>> ANTONIA NAN CHU: Thank you very much. Liyun shared some vivid examples of Internet Plus and explained very explicitly about what is the concept of Internet Plus.

Now I'd like to invite other panelists from China to share their experience and understanding about the concept of Internet Plus. And also how Internet Plus influenced the industry upgrading in China and also the influence on the daily life of China people.

Who would like to share? Yes. Doctor.

>> NING KONG: I'm Ning. I want to share the data. Dr. Liyun just shared information about Alibaba, and you may notice that there is a very special number. Yesterday, November 11, so we can see November 11 has four 1s. So Alibaba had a special day on November 11. And on that day Alibaba will have a lot of special policy, for example, a lot of products will have a very big discount. So in that day almost everyone in China will feel very excited. And I want to share a number of that date.

So last year, the total number of the business transactions is over 60 billion RB. And yesterday, the number is 90 billion RB. So it's almost 15 billion U.S. dollars for the one day. 90 billion RB. So 15 billion U.S. dollars. So it's a very huge number.

So from this number, we can see that especially in China, it's a very, very huge requirement with the online shopping, and the Internet really has a lot of magic. So I believe that the Internet Plus can strongly promote a lot of industry. And vice versa, I believe that the traditional industry will also influence the evolution of the Internet.

For example, I believe that in the future, everything, our products will be carried by the end-users. Maybe everyone is interested on the detailed information of the products. So as far as I know, for example, EPC Global, they promote a product code query and they use the DNS domain system to provide the look-up service. And I'm not sure whether in the future DNS is not really feasible for this very, very huge product query requirement. So maybe in the future DNS should be updated. Maybe in the future we need to use a DNS Plus or maybe another very totally new name service for the Internet of Things.

And another big change may be for the search engine. Nowadays we -- everyone is very familiar with the Google service. And maybe for the Internet Plus, for the future, for the Internet of Things, there will be another Google company and provide their magic search engine service. So I believe the Internet Plus will have a lot of big imagination space. So everything can be Plus. Everything can be updated. That's some kind of my opinion.


>> ANTONIA NAN CHU: Thank you very much, Dr. Kong. I think 15 billion US dollar sales in one day is really a magnificent number. Even though all of us, because we are attending the IGF here, we were not able to participate in the double 11 shopping day. But as far as I know, a lot of friends of mine have participated in the big consumption day and bought a lot of things they like.

So any other views from the Chinese representatives?

>> AUDIENCE: Julie. Just to share some more interesting things regarding Alibaba. Because in spite of the number, we have Taipa Village. Because we have a lot of small villages in China, especially in the south of China. And it's small populations, between 500 and 1000. And they are starting their own business online. And actually they don't have the traditional offline stores, but they are trying to produce and sell their products online, and actually they are making a living by selling things online. So we call that Taipa Village. A lot of villages like that.

So I think this Internet Plus is not only changing the way we live, but also changing -- all we can say, it is going to change the way we produce in the future. Okay.

>> ANTONIA NAN CHU: Thank you, Julie.

So we are a little bit slow than our schedule. Perhaps we can enter the next sub session quickly. The staff please, can you please help me change the slides to the agenda page?

Can you please change the slides to the agenda page? Because the clicker here is not working.

Of course. Michael, please.

>> MICHAEL KENDE: Thank you, Liyun, thank you for the presentation. Obviously from the Internet Society's view, the more the Internet is used, this is our goal. You said it was a bottom-up approach and showed some companies, clearly Alibaba are from the bottom-up. It was announced by the Premier.

I'm wondering if you are formulating or the Government is formulating plans to push this or what the role will be to help promote it.

For instance, you mentioned, Doctor, a new DNS. Do you think that will be bottom-up as well or will there be Government efforts top down to help promote Internet Plus?


>> LIYUN HAN: Actually, the Internet Plus is initiated originally from the bottom model. Because the enterprises make some innovation on this -- in this field. So they have some -- made some successes on this model. So after that, some mature examples, like the similar model.

So, you know, raise some emphasis to the Government. So the Government put this Internet Plus action to the national strategies. And after that, the Chinese Government issued the guideline of the Internet Plus Action Plan. It's an official document to elaborate what the Internet Plus is and the guidelines principles of the Internet Plus, how to Plus, and how to, you know, properly Plus the things.

Because as you know, the Internet was born, you know, the Internet was born with the function of Plus. Because it can be Plussed. So many fields can be Plussed to the Internet, to integrate with the Internet technologies.

But that is the truth and that's the practice. How to make the Plus properly and to make the Plus healthy, that's the point. That's what the Government should do, should set the guidelines and the principles.

>> ANTONIA NAN CHU: This session is about sharing experience and best practices on integrating Internet with other industries.

So I'd like to invite our panelists to share some examples. So I know Ingo is going to talk more about the Germany industrial 4.0, right?

So Ingo, please.

>> INGO FRIESE: Yes. Hi, my name is Ingo Friese. I just want to show you or share with you some insights of what we are doing in industrial 4.0. It's a great hope and also kind of a great hype. So everybody wants to jump on the train. And so this is one thing why we have to distinguish, okay, what is noise and what is really, really happening.

And so from a practical point of view, we started already with some nice projects and smart farming, for example, where harvests communicated with each other to be very efficient and to make production processes more efficient.

And from a Telco industry perspective, there are some challenges, for example, in terms of providing lines with a certain it's called quality of service. So that it means if you have a production or sometimes in medical cases you have the surgeries, remote, for example. And then you have to ensure that, you know, that information comes really in time. And with our current usual day-to-day Internet, it's the best effort. So we need new lines or new technology in the ground to ensure quality that is appropriate for certain -- for industry processes.

And this, from the -- it's for our industry. Then I think even a lot of things happens around the industry.

For example, when you mentioned this public transport thing in China. So we have this -- it's recently started the my taxi app. So you can just call a taxi. And this car sharing things, you know, even in other cities or even all over the world. But I think these are developments that are around industrial 4.0. So it's a core. And other initiatives are growing around this.

Unfortunately, since I have to leave early, now I want to say something about the challenges. There is, when you bring ICT and the old industry together, then they are different mindsets. And what I mean, for example, if you are talking to a car manufacturer, when these guys buy a huge machine, pressing parts for a car, they buy this machine for -- this machine has to run over ten years or more. And ten years in the ICT industry, it's a huge, you know, our phones, say, you know, are they up to date let's say after one year? There comes a next-generation that is much more better and with new processes inside.

When you talk to these guys and when you say you change all the controlling instances and processes within one year, it's not possible. We have to be stable for ten years or five years or something like that. So this is one challenge.

And another challenge I want to mention is in many cases is the business, the business impact is not really clear. So if it's really -- so people or our business guys, they design, for example, services for farmers to better coordinate things. But the prices for it, it's not really clear that, for example, farmers want to pay for this. And if you have a look at Internet of Things stuff, you know, a normal lamp, for example, it costs something about, if you change this, I don't know the right English term, but this little part that makes it shining. And it costs -- traditionally it costs one Euro. And if you can switch it off and on it costs up to 20. So you have to explain to the user why you have to pay so much more for this. And there are enthusiasts who want to buy it, but there is a lot of skepticism in terms of, okay, well, what about the business?

But I think we should keep on, because it was always -- it was -- it's -- it turns out on the long run in the business numbers.

So that's from the industry point of view

>> ANTONIA NAN CHU: Thank you, Ingo.

So any other panelists have something to share or any other questions that you want to ask Ingo?


>> MIKE NELSON: I'm Mike Nelson with CloudFlare and I teach at Johnstown.

Much of what we know about 4.0 in Germany has been focused on the big manufacturing companies. Do you have any examples or goals that were set for the small companies? Not just small manufacturing companies, but maybe small logistics companies, consulting firms, app developers? Is there a piece of the industry 4.0 vision that actually affects the company that has 10 or 20 employees?

>> INGO FRIESE: As far as I know, I'm sure there are. But personally, I don't have examples here.

Because I think right now they are the big ones. SAP, Siemens, and they are involved in this because they are very close to the -- they have their guys that are close with the Government, and then -- but it's not -- but I think it's -- it comes -- it's natural. It's just natural. Because they are working together with smaller companies, and it's -- so I think --

>> MIKE NELSOn: Certainly there are examples where they are tying the big and small companies.

>> INGO FRIESE: Which is the former monopolist, the barrier for letters, the post, but I think there are a lot of small companies coming into the market and they use very extensive things. These new technologies, in order to optimize their logistics, and for certain niches, for niche markets, they say okay, this is something that we can provide and much better if we use Internet technology.

>> MIKHAIL KOMAROV: Yes, I should probably have just a short question in terms of industry 4.0. As I heard, so it's more about making profitable manufacturing of any quantities, right? It's more about personal production. So did you think it's for big companies -- do you think it's a challenge for big companies to be more, let's say, customer oriented under this system?

>> INGO FRIESE: I don't know what the right word is, but there is a model, a product up to size one. Even if you want to have this one, one single part to be produced in a certain machine, you just send over the plan in an electronic way and they make this for you, this special part.

And this is one hope. And this is one challenge even for the big companies. And I think this is a challenge for the big companies to change their processes. But it's also a chance for the smaller ones.

For example, I know from -- I know one example there is a small company that is producing some special parts of the -- for a car. I don't know the name of the special parts. But it translates from the engine to the wheels. So this. And they -- here you can send your -- if -- there are small car manufacturers that need a strong translation and they need special parts. And and if they go to the usual biggies, they say you have to buy a thousand or I cannot make it. But the small ones, they can produce it in a very easy way.

So I think it's a chance for the smaller.

>> ANTONIA NAN CHU: Yes. Liyun please.

>> LIYUN HAN: As I remembered, I heard an interesting opinion about the Chinese Internet Plus, a kind of Internet Plus idea. And the 4.0.

Chinese people is more willing to, especially the expertise, high talent expertise in the field of Internet technology. It's more willing to go to the Internet and -- enterprises after graduation. But in Germany, I think the same people is more willing to go to the big manufacturer.

I think it's the biggest difference between the two models.

>> ANTONIA NAN CHU: What do you think about this interesting opinion?

>> INGO FRIESE: I haven't thought about this. Maybe... I think of course if people want to go to the big companies... but I think it depends. I know also a lot -- there are a lot of initiatives that encourage young people to go do their start up and to do their business.

But maybe it's natural in unsecured times to go ahead, when I work with a big company I can learn a lot and I can, from -- I can have a more secure place.

>> XIAODONG LEE: Just a comment about this question. Two months ago I joined a workshop in Beijing. It was about the Internet Plus automobile. So there is a young guy from a university in China, and their auto is very famous. So the guy graduated this year and he went into the job. So he asked questions. You know, if I choose a job in your company, I choose a job in the traditional automobile manufacturer, so I just give him an answer.

It depends on how much salary do they pay. The company has a lot of investment, a lot of money, if they pay double or triple salary compared to the traditional auto manufacturer. So it depends if you want to -- what money is in the company. But that is very interesting.

In China, we want to make the automobile. We want to, you know, share the market of the traditional automobile manufacturer. So I think it's a really big challenge. In China, the industry is not very strong but the new economy is very strong.

So I think there are three concepts in the world. One is the industry version 4 from Germany. And there is another concept is industrial Internet in America. And now China with a third concept is Internet Plus. I think it's a similar concept because, you know, in America they are strong in manufacturing. In China, the industry is not very strong. But in Germany there are a lot of famous industrial companies, but there is no famous Internet company.

So there is a story in China that is very popular. That in Germany there are so many computer graduates and they want to join the SAP company, and maybe some automobile manufacturers and traditional technology. The technology is very good. But there is no Internet company. I don't know how the world will be in the future, but I know Germany now is pushing and promoting this concept very hard. And I also know that in China, the Chinese Government wants the Internet economy. We are leading the economy increasing in the next five or ten years.

I remember a number that, in this year or last year, the contribution for the Internet company in China is about 7 percent for the GDP. In America, it's about 4.3 percent. So I do believe that the Chinese Government economy will be leading that development in the next two years. So the Premier announced this is ready and pushes a lot to get people to go into the Internet economy and to attract the investment.

So many Internet companies have credit by themselves and maybe they would want to be in China again, because they can hire and they can get investment very easily.

So for today's discussion, I believe it depends on who will run the world. Maybe the Internet company. Maybe the traditional industry. I don't know.

>> MIKE NELSON: I wanted to move on and talk about how this fits into the context of what has happened in the US actually over the last 20 years. I have an interesting background. I've been at CloudFlare for about ten months, since the start of the year.

But I think what is really useful here is for me to talk about the work I did when I was at the Government and at IBM. I had the privilege of working with Vice President Gore in the White House in the '90s. And this was really the first phase of the Internet revolution. And both Bill Clinton and Al Gore were quite aware of the opportunity with the Web. That was one magic technology. And they were committed to using it to make life better for Americans.

While I was at the White House we wrote three very important reports that are in some way similar to what you are doing here. First was the national information infrastructure agenda. The next was the global information infrastructure agenda. And the last was a report on global eCommerce, sometimes called the Magazineer Report.

These were vision documents about how the Web could be used to foster eGovernment, better health, better business business efficiency. And they helped spur a lot of economic growth and job creation. And in the years following the Clinton administration, that led to a really significant increase in productivity.

The statistics are very clear, that you almost doubled the amount of productivity growth for about five years, mostly during the first years of the Bush administration. So this was a big deal.

I love what you've done here, because this is the second phase. This is a point where we have not just one magi technology, we have five. We have Mobile Broadband. We have Cloud technology. We have sensors. Like to refer not to the IoT, I like to talk about the COT, the Cloud of Things. Or better, the Cloud of All Things, COAT. Some people talk about Fog Computing. It's just ubiquitous and it's everywhere.

Of course the other magic technologies are big data, much of it coming from the sensors, and machine learning to help us understand that data.

You have that in your vision. And most importantly, the word you keep using is integrate. Because the whole of those five technologies is a lot more powerful than the sum of the parts.

So by doing this vision document, you'll do what we did back in the '90s, and what I hope the US Government will do now in explaining what all the opportunities are. We have lots of little stories. But nobody has tried to put it altogether and explain how it affects the whole economy and how it affects the individual citizen.

So I think if this is done right, the high level leadership, the vision, it can really spur a lot more investment and build a lot of political support as well.

You asked what can be done to build support for this. One thing we did in the '90s was to get Vice President Gore and President Clinton to go out into the community and demonstrate the technology. They launched something called Net Day. And the focus was on putting fiber optic or putting coaxial cable into our elementary schools and junior high schools. Lots of photo opportunities. Lots of news stories. And, again, just showing that the leadership understands the opportunity is so important, because it gets the reporters to talk about it. It gets the other politicians to talk about it. And most importantly, it convinces the ministers and lower level officials that this is a priority. And they educate themselves and they start working together because they know that there is a political imperative. So I think this is potentially a game changing initiative, if they keep pushing it.

Reports are issued every week. But if this can become something where they keep reminding people of all the different applications. I saw the same statistics that Dr. Lee saw in the United States. ICT contributes about .5 percent to our annual growth over the last ten years. In China, it's more like 1 percent of the growth between between 2004 and 2014.

There is a very big Article I could share with you that was first published in CENA finance three weeks -- about three months ago. And it shows us just how important these kinds of investments can be.

So, again, I think this is great. And I think you have to frame this in a nontechnical way and you've done that. And you have to use the right words. Internet Plus, I like that. I did a talk here years ago at Microsoft on Cloud Plus. And I think both are great buzz words. You only get three or four syllables. We talked about the national information infrastructure. Way too long. Cloud Plus. Internet Plus. Very good.

>> ANTONIA NAN CHU: Thank you, Dr. Nelson, and thank you all the panelists sharing their views during this part.

I think our panelists have proposed a very good concept. Because even though different terms have been proceeded by different countries, including China, US and Germany, but I think all this concept carrying the same spirit, which is integrating Internet with other industries, which is about using Internet to boost the economy and make more contributions to the of the society.

>> MICHAEL NELSON: Your concept is broader than the other industrial Internet or the 4.0. And I think that's part of the reason that it's so important. Because you go beyond traditional manufacturing. I think you could add more focus on how these technologies will change white collar jobs and change how businesses and small offices work -- how people in those offices work together. There has been a lot of work done by John Habel and John Ceely Brown of ways that not just affect banks and others, but it affects everyone. And I think the breadth of your vision is broader than anything else that I have seen.

>> ANTONIA NAN CHU: Thank you, Dr. Nelson. Yes, Tomas, please.

>> TOMAS LAMANUNSKAS: So continuing in what you were talking about, what you are talking about is the global agenda. And Michael explained the technological trends impacting the industry 4.0. But from our global aspect, again, what is important, that concept of fully embedding and understanding that ICT is an enabler for everything. It's less and less industry. It's more an enabler for more industries and part of that. And that's going to go through various levels, from developmental level. We have Sustainable Development Goals saying that these should be enabled to everything.

And we talk not only in China, but in other countries around the world, we talk about well, if we spend ICT budgets, so we shouldn't be talking about the ICT budgets. We should talk about the health and education and industry budgets. And then the ICTs is a means to achieve those goals in those areas. And no longer it's a stand-alone industry. And that goes very well with that. Also, of course, it's good for businesses and enables more industry. But it's good for the Telecom industry.

Last week I was at a Mobile Broadband summit in Hong Kong, where the discussion was again about -- basically, the idea was bringing all the verticals to discuss how Telecom should work with them. Because the understanding is the only way for the Telecom industry to remain profitable is to go into the verticals and to support them and find applications for that.

So how do we enable that? How do we enable the progress? At least from our perspective, one thing is global standards. So we have been working already in some specific verticals, like eHealth standards, and making sure that again this is interworking now.


(Switching captioners. Technical difficulty)


>> ‑‑ ability about the UAVs, vehicles, and so on, it is an exchange of simple jobs, let's say to artificial intelligence or unmanned solutions with dramatical influences on the labor market.

Where all these people are going to, you know ‑‑ for which companies will they work? What they're going to do when we are going ‑‑ when we are talking about integrating our IT things, when we are talking about sensors, when talking about unmanned vehicles, everywhere, what other ‑‑ what are these people going to do then, right?

Just, you know, then I would like to finish with their wonderful citation from art of innovations. That presentation, currently we're fighting the change in terms of moving from one curve to another curve. According to the history, what we can see from the past, companies from this curve can't move to another curve because they don't understand, you know, how they can change the traditional, you know ‑‑ if they're talking about this example, the traditional manufacturing process to the more personalized manufacturing process, more‑service oriented with the sharing economy approach.

Thank you very much.

>> ANTONIO CHU: Thank you.

I noticed our ladies here, they would like to say something.

Maybe you first? Ana, please?

>> ANA NEVES: Thank you very much.

I'm from Portugal, from the Ministry of Education and Science.

It is very interesting, this Internet Plus. We call it in Portugal Internet of Things or Internet of Everything.

We have this digital Portugal Agenda where the Internet of Everything is included as the network connection of people, process, big data and things, enabling new kinds of processes and helping to make smarter decisions. One thing we have to have in mind is that to achieve this, we need to be connected all the time, which has new policies, business models.

Now I would like to share with you a project that we have in Portugal since 2010 I think. It is about the Internet of Moving Things. It is a project developed by a spin‑off some years ago. It is a small company. We turn vehicles into Wi-Fi Hotspots and build city scale networks which expands the coverage and collects human data. The hardware, software, Cloud components are running by a connected vehicles, including taxis, waste collection trucks and the entire public bus fleet.

In a city north of Portugal, we're offering free Wi-Fi to any customer. This was built on more than ten years of research especially funded by the Ministry. The goal, it is three fold: First, to reduce the traffic in the mobile network; the second, to increase the possibility of people with fewer financial resources to access the Internet; third, to share information on vehicles and traffic. This enables vehicle‑to‑vehicle communication, opening endless possibilities and applications ranging from data sharing to traffic safety or even entertainment. This project builds a living lab in a city with several industrial and university partners which include disciplines of engineering, of course, and sociology and psychology as well. This serves not only the economy but well‑being, of course. Beyond Wi-Fi, the vehicular network also gathers best data that may result in the optimization of energy consumption and mitigation of environmental impacts and management of roads and public transport. I think that we have here a very good example of what Internet Plus is.

>> ANTONIA CHU: Thank you, Ana.

>> TEREZA HOREJSOVA: I'm from the DiploFoundation. I was invited here to give you some observations or experience from the non‑profit sector.

Listening to your presentation about Chinese Internet Plus, you know, I'm pleased to hear this actually goes to other aspects beyond the manufacturing, industry. It may also be interesting for me to discover more how does it, for instance, emerge in the education, capacity development activities.

Now, sharing some experience from the point of view of the DiploFoundation: We're a training institution with a mission to help small and developing countries to participate more effectively in policy government processes, mainly in the field of Internet Governance and to reach out to the countries. We have over the last 10 years, 12 years extensively used online learning. We have developed our online platform, our online learning, this way we can really reach out, you know, much further, much cheaper. The technology for us, our work, it is a tool, a means as was spoken about, which allows the people in the different places to interact, to learn from each other. Because you asked also to have some observations on the Internet integration with the other industries, this is a very, very important ‑‑ very important aspect in all our work. Our capacity development activities, we do try to involve and cooperate with the local institutions because that can really help to tailor the eLearning approach to the local social context which is very important, and you know, possibly could be lost if only Internet is taken as the tool and we should try to take this into account rather than assuming then that the Internet Plus magic would just transcend borders. This aspects of the localization are very important.

Maybe one last point on the digital divide aspect of the debate: In designing the current online platform, the work that we're doing, our focus has been on accessibility. We often work with people from countries with low bandwidth and weak Internet connection. That is what we took as the primary ‑‑ you know, the ‑‑ how to make this accessible for them. For instance, because of the circumstances we do have to limit the use of video, multimedia, but we still feel that we have created an environment when the learning experience can be happening. It is really from my point of view as a non‑profit training organization to hear more than from you if our time allows, which is a challenge. It would be interesting.

Thank you.

>> ANTONIA CHU: Thank you.

I noticed Michael?

>> MICHAEL NELSON: Quickly on the fourth question, which really dovetails with the focus of the Internet Society for the coming year. We have announced the action plan to focus on access divide and trust. Clearly, you know, can it widen the Digital Divide? If you need the Internet, absolutely it will increase the divide. You can't participate in single day if you're not on the Internet.

For skills, you have an impact if you need the ICT skills to participate in the company. If you don't have the training, then you can't be an employee, and certainly not an employee working with the ICT. That's clearly an issue.

All countries, including, I'm sure China, of course, trying to get everybody online as fast as possible, but there is always the risk. In terms of trust, you know, clearly, the security, you put the Internet in more things, there is more ways to hack in, to create problems.

I'll use an example, Tomas has heard that Jeep included online entertainment system in their Jeeps so it is an Internet Plus Jeep. Somebody hacked into it. They could take over from the entertainment system, it could take over the whole transmission, stop the car, start the car, so clearly that was a problem. In the aftermath was the real problem.

So they hadn't been able to assess the risk. Someone stuck an Internet component in, they couldn't tell it could get to a transmission. They didn't take responsibility. They said it was the hacker. It was like if someone came, cut the tires on your car, it had nothing to do with us. At least in the U.S., there was no assignment of risk the same way as if it was a defective airbag, something else. They couldn't fix it. Even though the Jeep was attached to the Internet, you had to go, bring it in. A lot of people won't do that. There are issues on the integration to make sure it is protected and if someone gets through, that you can adjust it, someone has responsibility to do that.

>> CHAIR: Thank you.


>> DR. LIYUN HAN: I wanted to note the same week of the announcement of the hacking of the Jeep, one of our best Social Security people hacked a Tusla. Unlike this case with the Jeep, we were able to work carefully, closely with them to fix the problem quickly. This is a serious problem that's a barrier. I wanted to highlight and stress the need for China to work with as many companies around the world to tackle the security problems.

When we were first doing our work in the White House 20 years ago there was people that said we should build it with American technology because, you know, that's the way we'll build a great IT industry. Luckily nobody listened to those people and we learned from European, Japanese, other people in Asia. I'm very glad that there's been a cooperation to extend the Cloud services here in China.

You have to be careful. A lot of misguided proposals have been put forward in many countries to provide better security, and it usually involves blocking too many things, too many types of software all because you want better security. It is critical to keep the network as open as possible so that you can use as many applications as possible to build the Internet Plus.

Another barrier, I think it was mentioned, the fear of job loss. It is important as you share this vision that you give people hope. When we were ‑‑ when I was in government we talked all about transforming government. If you were a 55‑year‑old government worker, that sounded like you may have to retire early. You have to give people a sense that while their function may not be needed if they're a clerk, their job isn't needed because now the service is provided online, you have to give them a sense of what the new job is going to be.

One of the biggest problems that we faced in our first generation, Internet proposals, was getting the different agencies to work together. You would have this situation where one agency was doing something that was blocking what three other agencies wanted to do. That's why it is so important to have ‑‑ in our case we had Vice President Gore pushing and we had the President's Information Infrastructure Council which brought together all of the deputy ministers of deputy secretaries of 12 different agencies. They started working together because there was a clear vision. I hope as you move this forward that there will be a council that the Premier will use to keep the process going. That lack of coordination, the bureaucratic competition, as you know, can always be a problem.

Thank you for inviting me to be here. I'm very happy to be on the panel with two of my favorite Michaels and Tomas and Ana.

>> CHAIR: Thank you.

>> I would love to make some short comments.

Thank you very much to our distinguished panelists, you inspired us a lot. Finally, I want to make some short comments on two lines.

The first, I think the Internet Plus system, whatever Internet Plus or 4.0 or industrial Internet, there are two ecosystems in this system. One, it is the fuse which can be isolated in the ecosystem, online education, online education it can boost the other ‑‑ resolve the problem of, you know, the Digital Divide. Something like that.

We would like to improve and promote the balanced Plus system, the first Internet Plus system, then the other, the actor system, the multistakeholder, private sector, Civil Society, academia, technical community, governments.

You know, Internet Plus is motivated from the market. It is market‑oriented, but it is also ‑‑ it has a lack, one, the market, the other, it is the policy. It is the Internet, the governance part. That part, the governments make more contribution on that part to guaranteeing the Plus, the Internet Plus system more stable.

That's my comments.

>> ANTONIA CHU: Thank you.

As you're aware, we're running out of time. Maybe 3 minutes for the audience onsite and our remote participants.

Any questions to our panelists?


>> AUDIENCE: Thank you very much.

Now, the topic is of immense interest. My very short question is that we're talking about trillions of different devices that will be getting connected in the Internet of Things, what kind of environment are we forecasting? And in particular, are we talking about the security, it will be of significance in such an environment. Anyone that would give any comments.

Thank you.

>> ANTONIA CHU: Thank you.

Who would like to ‑‑ yes, please.

>> Since I work for a web security firm.

It is not just about hacking into system, steeling data but malicious hackers disrupting the systems. We help protect against the service attacks. Nobody will trust the systems if they're not available 99.9% or 99.9% of the time.

The other thing we worry about, the integrity of data. If someone breaks in a system, an employee who works for a company alters datasets that are fundamental to a factory, a bank, that's a serious threat. Good news, we're making progress. We're finding ways to fight back against the malicious hackers that are detecting the viruses and the malware more quickly. It is an arm's race as they say. The key, it is getting international collaboration among companies so that they share the data on cyber vulnerabilities and the fixes that are needed to ensure that those cyber vulnerabilities are not misused.

>> ANTONIA CHU: Thank you.

>> A great question.

>> ANTONIA CHU: Any more questions?

I would like to thank you, to the panelists, for coming today, letting us hear so many good stories and Best Practices from different stakeholders and different countries.

I agree with the point, Internet Plus itself is a concept, an ongoing progress and the concept of Internet Plus will be enriched through the past, to the present, to the future practices.

Thank you all again. Thank you for joining us.