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2015 11 12 Open Forum - Association for Progressive Communications (APC) Workshop Room 2 FINISHED
 Welcome to the United Nations | Department of Economic and Social Affairs

The following are the outputs of the real-time captioning taken during the Tenth Annual Meeting of the Internet Governance Forum (IGF) in João Pessoa, Brazil, from 10 to 13 November 2015. Although it is largely accurate, in some cases it may be incomplete or inaccurate due to inaudible passages or transcription errors. It is posted as an aid to understanding the proceedings at the event, but should not be treated as an authoritative record. 



>> ANRIETTE ESTERHUYSEN: So can I invite all the APC members and team members to sit at the table and other people as well, so, you know, come and sit closer to the table.

Good morning, everyone. Sorry we're late. We felt it was a good thing to be generous to UNESCO, which is a very good partner of APC and give them a bit more time. I just want to check with the technicians, how will you do the transitions? Will I, because this is -- do I have to indicate to somebody when to do the slide transitions?

I could also just not use the slides. Rather than waste time sorting the slide show -- I'm sorry we couldn't set it up earlier because there was another session. I think we should just start. My name is Anriette Esterhuysen, Executive Director of APC, and it's really fantastic to see so many APC people and other people here. We're going to go over quickly what APC is, APC structure and history and use the opportunity to talk to the many people in the room that are part of APC and that have worked with APC.

So firstly to start of APC's history, we were founded in 1990. We are celebrating our 25th anniversary this year, so it's a very significant -- significant time for us, and APC is -- it has a dual identity. It has -- it's an organization, so you see APC staff, we have a booth and we implement projects, but APC's also a network, and the network is made up of organizations that are doing work and using ICTs for social justice and development and gender equality or human rights in their own context, and the diversity of work across the network is immense, from worker's rights, labor rights, to environmental justice, to open-source software, and this sum of all of this diversity is what makes up APC, and people often ask us at the IGF why there are so many of us here, why we are everywhere, and the reason is because of this member network and the diversity of what they do.

And the structure of APC is that it's incorporated as an NGO, it's a section 501(c)(3) in the United States. Members determine the priorities of APC, and again, that's why it's important for us to bring members to the IGF because that's part of the process of members assessing what they think APC should be focusing on, so APC's program is determined from -- on the one hand -- members' local realities, the issues they are dealing with in their countries or the countries where they work, and on the other hand, we try to respond to what's happening at a global level in the areas that are most important to us, and that's ICT policy, human rights, gender justice.

Another unique characteristic of APC is that we work in policy and in practice. The history of APC -- and we have some of APC's -- APC'S first staff member is here in the room, and some of APC's founders are in the room. APC started with technology, and in 1990, when APC was founded, and in 1987, when many of us started doing our work, the Internet did not exist yet as we know it today, but the power of using computer-enabled communications did exist, and that's what APC did. We mobilized that power, we created our own platforms, our own networks, our own technology, and we connected people all over the world before the word the "Internet" had even been imagined, so that is part of our history as well.

So today in the present, APC does much more policy-oriented work, but our history is a very hands-on work, so that is a unique characteristic.

Just to tell you just a little bit, the problem that APC addresses, insufficient access, and because we're a global network, we work with members who have very different experiences of access. We have members in parts of Africa where affordable access is still just a reality in big cities with relatively few people; two members in Japan which -- and South Korea who have had very high level of access.

We also address the threats to the openness of the Internet, which comes both from government encroachment as well as encroachment from corporations changing the nature of the Internet, violation of user's privacy, and we address the fact that there is a gender equality on the Internet in different ways and in different parts of the world. It could be at a level of women not being part of the technical development of the Internet as well as not at the policy level, or it could be where women are so socially and economically marginalized that they just don't have sufficient access or able to have any access.

And then we also are responding to the increasing threats to Civil Society and human rights defenders being able to use the Internet securely in their work.

And then finally we really -- and this is why we are at the IGF -- we're trying to create Internet policy spaces where Civil Society are there, they are at the table, but they're not just at the table, they're actually setting the agenda.

And what is our women's program mantra on this? If you're not at the table, you're on the menu? Just remind me what we normally say where's Jac? Is she here? She just disappeared. So for us it's very important for us to bring Civil Society into decision-making spaces. We do that in a dialogue space, like the IGF, we do it at the general assembly, we do it at the Committee on the Status of Women, we do it on local level, in work with local regulators and regional levels, with partners from the United Nations Economic Commission for Africa and the African Union. I think I'll close.

APC's approach to policy is linking local, national, regional, and global, so for us, being at a global event like this is an opportunity for our members to find their governments and engage with them and to bring issues to their attention, which sometimes is very hard for them to bring to their attention at a country level because it's -- you know, it's more difficult for a senior government official to be impolite with Civil Society in a global space than it is in a national space.

And then we believe in partnership. We work with government and regulators and decision-makers and businesses at a level of criticism, engagement that is critical, that challenges practices that we feel changes the Internet into something that we don't believe it should be, but we also really must partner, so we also work with them collaboratively.

And, I mean, examples of our projects, you can find out at our booth, there's the Global Information Society Watch, which will be launched later, the African Declaration on Internet Rights and Principles, Feminist Principles of the Internet, and many more.

So I will close on that, and I'm just going to ask some of the members to talk about their work, but are there any questions from anyone about APC and its structure, its funding, or its governance? I'm afraid you have to get up and go to the microphone, so it's this -- oh, that's good. We have a -- we have a roving microphone. Just introduce yourself and keep your question brief.

>> ARTHUR GWAGWA: Arthur. I'm an Open Technology Fund fellow at a Strathmore University. It's about membership. How do we become a member of APC? Thanks.

>> ANRIETTE ESTERHUYSEN: Okay. I'm asking one of the staff members to answer that.

Emilar. Take this opportunity to introduce yourself to the rest of the room.

>> EMILAR GANDHI: Okay. It just shows how we work at APC, always prepared to do something. My name Emilar, and I'm the African policy coordinator at APC, and I'm based in South Africa. We have two levels of membership. You can join APC as an organization, and you can also join APC as an individual affiliate. So to join APC, you write to membership at or talk to someone in the booth. There's also a leaflet where you can write your email and someone will take you through on the steps on how to join APC. It's an easy process. The benefits are so many, including the party today. Bring your dancing shoes.

>> ARTHUR GWAGWA: Thank you.

>> ANRIETTE ESTERHUYSEN: And could I actually ask and go on from that, so member applications, there's a membership working group, which is made up of members, and then the final decision to approve members is made by the APC board, which is elected by members, and this is my cue to introduce the board members in the room. They're going to identify themselves, and then I'm going to ask the chair of our board, Julian, to say a little bit about the board and how the board works. Can I ask all the members of the board that are in the room just to identify themselves? You can just say your name and where you're from.

>> JULIAN CASABUENAS: Good morning. My name is Julian Casabuenas. I'm a member of APC Board and chair of the board. I work for Colnodo in Colombia. It's an APC member since 1994.

>> VALENTINA PELLIZZER: Valentina Pellizzer from OneWorld Platform. We are a member, I think, since 2007-2008, in Bosnia-Herzegovina, vice chair.


>> CHIM MANAVY: Good morning. I am Manavy from Open Institute. I am a board member of the APC. I was elected as a board member in 2013. Nice to meet all of you here.

>> ANRIETTE ESTERHUYSEN: Thanks, Manavy. And we have Lillian -- oh, Liz.

>> LIZ PROBERT: Hello. I'm Liz Probert from UK Member GreenNet.

>> LILLIAN NALWOGA: Hi, everyone. Nalwoga, Lillian. I work with Collaboration on International ICT Policy in Eastern and South Africa from Uganda, and the organization has been a member since 2007.

>> ANRIETTE ESTERHUYSEN: Thanks a lot. And you can grab them all, so -- because they are members of APC's board. They're also members of APC's Council. And can I just ask, before I give the members a chance to talk about their work, Jac, can you just tell everyone in under three minutes what the APC Women's Rights Program has done, and perhaps bring that into the IGF and how we have tried to work in this space over the last ten years.

>> JAC sm KEE: Okay. Hello. So we have broadly four different strands of activities and strategies that we do. One is around research, so we conduct research in particular areas. The other is around capacity building. We also do policy advocacy and we also do network and movement building activities, and the areas that we work on is on -- primarily on -- it shifts according to different time, but at the moment we are focusing on ending violence against women on sexuality and human rights on the Internet, on gender and Internet governance, as well as a focus around access and gender issues.

So the way that we work is we really partner with organizations in different countries and we try to start always by some level of research to understand the issue because we're often at the intersection of women's rights work as well as Internet rights work, so we always try to start with a little bit of research to understand the depth of it, and that helps to build the capacity as well as the capacity of our partners, and also to help direct some of our advocacy priorities.

And then we do capacity building with a lot of our partners and members -- partners and members -- partners and allies as well to -- in three different ways. One is around strategic use of technology to improve -- so that they can use ICTs better in the advancement of their work; two is around digital security, so how do we use technology in more safe and secure ways; and three is around gender and Internet governance, so really looking at ICT policy and governance issues and looking at how to sort of engage the space.

We will also then work with partners to propose workshop sessions for the IGF, for example, so we've been here since the very beginning, really trying to bring the issue -- you know the many different issues around women's rights and gender and Internet rights into the space, and it's really fantastic to see that in, you know, 2015 there are so many other organizations who's also not just proposing workshops that focuses on a particular issue of gender but integrates it into other types of conversations as well. There's really been a shift.

And the other thing that we also do is -- we've been coordinating the Gender Dynamic Coalition up until this year, and one of the work of the Gender Dynamic Coalition is to bring different stakeholder groups who is interested in gender and IG issues to gather in some space about a plan activity to think about what we might want to prioritize, how can we promote the participation of women and the integration of gender as an issue in Internet Governance debates, and, yeah -- and one of the outputs of the Gender Dynamic Coalition work is the regular IGF report card that we've started since 2011 -- when was it? 2012, I think.


>> JAC sm KEE: Yeah. We've tried to put this as part of the formal process. In fact, the Gender Dynamic Coalition meeting is happening, so I may have to split.

>> ANRIETTE ESTERHUYSEN: You may. Valeria, quickly about the policy and rights work. Valeria is the manager of our policy program, our communications implementation policy program, Jac is the manager of APC's Women's program.

>> VALERIA BETANCOURT: Sure, Anriette. I'm Valeria. I'm from Ecuador, and I coordinate the policy program at the APC with a wonderful team all around the world. Basically, similar to Jac, work with training, we also do research, capacity building, network building around issues of access, Internet governance and access. In the area of access, we are looking at reemphasizing the need of having public access strategies in order to solve the digital gap and also trying to work with governments on raising awareness about innovative use of radio spectrum as a way to provide a solution to bridge the digital divide, particularly to bring program and to work in the last mile, and we are also working with governments around strategies for infrastructure sharing as a way to reduce the cost of deploying broadband, looking at the regulatory environment to do so, basically in Africa and Latin America, and in the area of rights, a lot of work has been done around civil and political rights, but we are looking at the intersection and relationship between Internet access and economic, social, and cultural rights. Exploring that relationship is a challenge, so we're trying to build some analytical tools but also practical tools to monitor the performance of stakeholders, basically governments around this area and how to -- and to look at how access is really contributing to the realization of the economic, social, and equal rights.

And in the area of governance, we have been focusing in trying to regionalize the debates around intergovernance, to bring the debates to the regional and national realities, and to promote multistakeholder collaboration around a policy dialogue on Internet governance in the regions and specific countries, and also to build the capacity of various stakeholders, not only Civil Society, to have a more meaningful engagement and participation in Internet governance processes regionally and globally.

So we have the African School of Internet Governance which has been very successful and is an indicator of the huge need and gap that we have in terms of strengthening the capacity, particularly of stakeholders of developing countries to be able to engage effectively with these spaces.

And so at the global level with our governance, we are here, and since the beginning of the IGF process, for instance, we have been advocating for linking Internet governance through human rights, and making sure it responds to the public interest. We have been advocating for adoption of mechanisms that ensure Internet governance is transparent and accountable, and inclusive and, therefore, democratic, and we wanted to really contribute to improving people's life.

So, yeah, we have also a very strong of building collaborations and partnerships around the world to promote, defend not only the democratic Internet governance but also exercise the full enjoyment of human rights online and to look at very practical solutions around access, but also to look at the regulatory environment and how we can enable and how we can enable the regulatory contexts for achieving affordable universal access for everyone.

>> ANRIETTE ESTERHUYSEN: Thanks very much, Valeria. Anyone with questions at any time, just put your hands up. Emi.

>> EMILAR GANDHI: It's from a remote participant. It's Ramanou from Benin, and he says from the two presentations from Valeria and Jac, it shows that APC is working on a policy level. What exactly are you doing to ensure -- what is APC's strategy to ensure that the Internet remains available for communities that are poorly represented or minority communities? What are the local actions that you're doing besides policy work?

>> ANRIETTE ESTERHUYSEN: Do you want to answer that, maybe talk about some of the -- you know, like the -- we have a project called Local Actions to Secure Internet Rights, which looks both at infrastructure and policy.

>> VALERIA BETANCOURT: I will tell a little bit to you about that, but I also want to emphasize the fact that because we're a network member organization, member-based network, a lot of the work happening at the local levels have been through our members, and let me just use --

>> ANRIETTE ESTERHUYSEN: Maybe we should actually, Valeria, you're right. Maybe we should move on to the members. Let him know he should listen, and if his question is not answered by the member inputs, we'll come back to it. Sorry, go ahead.

>> VALERIA BETANCOURT: Just to respond to how we are responding to local realities, we have a very nice example here at the IGF. Yesterday we attended -- the day before yesterday, sorry, we attended a ceremony of recognition of a specific initiatives around the world that are contributing to the development of the Internet around various aspects, and one of the initiatives that was recognized was an initiative from Argentina, a group that has been deploying community wireless networks in very remote area in Argentina, one of the provinces in Argentina, and it came to our surprise and it was a very nice surprise that we found out that the first training, technical training on actually setting up a community wireless networks was the one organized by APC in 2007 in the Latin American region, one of the most successful projects with members, and now they have been doing so for many years, and now they are here at the global IGF showing the experience and explaining how local solutions are contributing also to provide policy solutions in their countries and --

>> ANRIETTE ESTERHUYSEN: Thanks very much. And Valeria, which initiative was that, the ISF initiative? Maybe just mention that.


>> ANRIETTE ESTERHUYSEN: Thanks. To shift away from what the APC Organization is doing, can we ask some of our members to talk about their work. Paz, just introduce yourself and you start us on that.

>> PAZ PENA: My name is Paz Pena, and I'm the director of Derechos Digitales, which is a Latin-American organization working on human rights regarding technologies, digital technologies, and we also believe that human rights needs to be announced in the Internet Governance agenda, so that's why we're here, but we also believe that Latin America can have its own agenda in Internet Governance, and agenda that can be with local participation, understanding our local and political and cultural reality, so that's why, actually, we have some kind of partnership with APC, with Valeria especially, to organize some activities here as the Latin American report that you can find in our website. That report tried to do a summary about the most important news regarding human rights on Internet in Latin America in the last year -- sorry -- in 2015, and in order to -- you know, to have a more -- a better understanding about what is going on in Latin America to the international community. This is a specific partnership with APC started last year, and we hope to increase our cooperation in the next years because we not only share the human rights' perspective on Internet governance, but we also share the approach from the global South that we really believe in as well. We are Latin Americans, and we really like to -- we really are proud of our local, you know, culture and we really believe that that can be part of the Internet governance too. Thank you.

>> ANRIETTE ESTERHUYSEN: Thanks, Paz. Just to add something to that, one of the philosophies that we have in APC is that we don't force members to brand their work as APC. We leave that entirely up to them. If they want to present their work to the world or to their partners as being linked to APC or part of APC, we like that, but we feel they don't have to do that because it might actually just be more effective for them to identify their work as being just locally driven.

And Lillian, a little bit about your work. Lillian is from CIPESA, Collaboration for Internet Policy in Eastern and Southern Africa.

>> LILLIAN NALWOGA: Thank you. CIPESA is one of the two centers that were established under the Catalyzing Access to Information and Communications Technology; that was CATIA in 2004, and since then we initially had an office in Cape Town, but we decided to move to Uganda. That is where we're based now, and since inception we've -- we've been a leading center -- I would like to say a leading center in Eastern Africa on ICT policy research and applications, but also we've been -- we realized that advocating for ICT policy or adoption of ICT policies without them being implemented was not meaningful, so in 2011 we initiated a project on ICT -- promoting ICT use for democracy and citizen participation where we've gone down to the local areas, local communities to provide ICT trainings, providing ICT equipment, and also and equip them with the skills to engage them with their local leaders.

But one of the other things that we've been involved in too is the Internet Governance Forum, and in 2006 we co-hosted the first Internet Governance Forum in Uganda, which we did with authority, that is the Uganda Communications Commission, and since then we've also participated and led processes in promoting Internet Governance in the region, including hosting the 2010 East African IGF and this year's East African IGF. When promoting this, we learn a lot, but what do we take home? So some of the issues, like Internet freedoms, some of the things that we are passionate about, and in 2012 we initiated a project on promoting Internet freedom in East Africa. We set up a project website, which is the Open Net Initiative, and last year we had the first forum on Internet freedom in East Africa. We produced our report highlighting the key legislation, policies, and incidence of what is happening in East Africa in regard to Internet freedom.

This year we're happy that we got a lot of support from APC and through the member -- the members from Africa who participated. We had quite a huge participation, and we launched this report where we did a survey on access privacy and security online in East Africa focusing on different areas, and it's available online, so we tried to understand at the local level and how we can implement it at the local level. Hence, adopting what we -- the slogan that we think globally and act locally.

>> ANRIETTE ESTERHUYSEN: Thanks. Thanks. And Nica, a little bit -- we need to move a little bit more quickly. A little bit about the work in the Philippines.

>> NICA DUMLAO: Okay. Thank you. I'm Nica, the Internet Rights Coordinator of Foundation for Media Alternatives in the Philippines. It's an ICT policy and governance organization advancing human rights and democratization and people's empowerment, so since our formation in 1997, FMA has sought to enhance the popularization and social marketing of development and oriented issues, and then in 1987 or 1990s, early '90s, we tried to focus on our intervention and ICTs to enable communication rights and defend rights information and access to knowledge through a progressive social transformation, so FMA joined the APC, the fifth, I think, member of APC in 2003, so this paved the way to -- for the formal recognition of actually FMA in the regional and international arena, so FMA enhanced its policy engagement, particularly an Internet rights through Southeast Asia for its involvement, first in APC-sponsored events back in the early 2000s, so we actually were there in the first Asian Internet Rights conference in South Korea in 2001. In March 2004, they were commissioned by APC to have the website for the Philippines, which services to monitor, which ICT activities follow and actions and policy outcomes, and this was further expanded in 2005, so FMA became a catalyst and CSO convener, not just in the Philippines, but also in Southeast Asia and in Asia, and we are also involved in these communication rights and the Information Society Campaign that was also facilitated by APC back then.

Now we've been -- well, APC has been really instrumental in strengthening our program on gender, so we have three very active programs. We have the gender program, we have the Internet Rights program, and we have, like, a subprogram, which is the Privacy and Surveillance program, right now. And most of the activities there are also, you know, tied up to the global activities of APC. We have, like -- we were part of the local action Security Internet Rights Project that has been facilitated by APC and also the gender project -- the End Violence Against Women project, this also being facilitated by APC, so these are the things that are -- that have been really going on right now in the Philippines, and we're very happy to be part of the network.

In the regional IGF, we were also able to convince APC to really mobilize and also Civil Society and the Asian Pacific IGF space, and we hope we'll be able to continue with that. We also had -- we just started to intervene in the space, where they convene, and we try to ensure that -- we try to make sure that Internet rights and -- Internet rights and Internet governance is part of the agenda of the Civil Society and the ICN and not just traditional human rights, so there.

>> ANRIETTE ESTERHUYSEN: Thanks a lot, Nica. And Valentina, maybe you can say how this dynamic -- how the relationship between the network and the members can work. Nica's also done a lot of that.

>> VALENTINA PELLIZZER: Thank you. I'll try to be brief.

>> ANRIETTE ESTERHUYSEN: You have to be brief.

>> VALENTINA PELLIZZER: Okay. So I will start from the end. This year, on the 1st of October, our organization organized the first IGF ever in Bosnia and Herzegovina, and we organized with an independent state body. This would not have happened if we didn't spend the previous, I would say, five but more years, working on understand what policies on Internet governance but also what can be policy means at the local level, and since we are not a female organization, I have to say if we look at the feminism, not gender only, APC never had the troubles in describing its politics and policy as a feminist one since the very beginning. This is the first reason why I find APC and why we decide to become a member of APC because I was not ashamed of using a word that the donor's community can be very tricky.

So this is what you do. You are who you are, but you learn together and you go back and forth and you get trust and resource because, you know, we could be very happy and willing to do our little IGF for one day, but we needed to have someone that would give us trust and resources, and APC, in a very informal way, through the different activities we have together, says you have -- you have us, which is great, so it is not about negotiating, it's about discussing how we can promote and move further. So feminist Internet governance at this very stage, our little organization is happy. We are not a technologist group, but we are the geek of the little area.

>> ANRIETTE ESTERHUYSEN: Thanks very much, Valentina. Last I'm going to Michel from Alternatives in Montreal, and hopefully we'll have time for a few others.

>> MICHEL LAMBERT: Yeah. I'm Michel Lambert. I'm working with a group called Alternatives, which is based in Montreal. We're not -- as it was just mentioned, we're not a technologies kind of group, we're not necessarily working a lot on ICT or with ICTs, we are defining ourself as a solidarity organization, meaning that our job, our mandate is to support others, other groups, other social movement working for social justice, environmental justice, and various sectors, and we do this at the international level, meaning everywhere and also in our own country, like my T-shirt is saying, we've been quite active politically in our own country.

Basically we do that in -- doing -- running a lot of capacity-building program, and that's where ICT's coming in because we used ICTs developing new tools, communication tools, for instance, all kinds of websites to help citizens and ICT organizations to connect together. Actually, when I started to work with the APC, I was based in Kinshasa, and we were dealing with this -- we created a web portal for some 4- or 500 organizations which had no it other means in those days. It was a prephased program, so there were no other means for them to communicate to each other.

So I would say capacity building. We do a lot of networking also to help organizations to connect together. We are quite active in the social forum processes, world social forum but also international social forum. I have been told there will be one happening on the Internet specifically in the next year. I don't know if APC will be engaged into this. And of course, we do support these organizations and sometimes putting money on the table so they can run social campaigns. We have less money these days, but we still do it.

I want just to speak about one specific program that we do now. I was talking about web portals and communication tool. One of those tools is still online. It's called (Inaudible). It's still online. Some 4- or 500 organizations from the Middle East, North Africa region, communicating together in Arabic and French and English, and that tool was not only a communication tool, it was an engaging tool, and we are organized with these organizations, various activities like -- prior to this, we had something like 10 or 11 social forums in this area, so it was moving a lot.

And lastly, we decided to engage in cyber security because in this region we noticed there was a lot of human right defender organization having a huge, immense problem with their own governments, so we set up a center called the DSS 216, DSS for Digital Security School, and 216 is the telephone code of the country.

And that -- that project helped us to train individuals from the old region from Morocco, from Palestine, from Egypt, from all of the countries in training people how to use various tools to protect themselves, protect their computer, protect their communication, and also with APC we developed -- we worked at the policy level to help them improving the policy in their various country. There is some documentation on the table you can look at, and I think that's up there. Thank you.

>> ANRIETTE ESTERHUYSEN: Thanks very much, Michel. We have just a few minutes left, and I just want to emphasize that there are other members around the table. There's the work of Julian's organization in Colombia and there's Steve, Ariel's also -- just identify yourselves so that you know who you can talk to. Ariel from Colombia, Steve from the United States. Where are the other members in the room? Tarata from Japan, Arturo from Paraguay. Anyone else?

And then just APC staff, identify yourself so people can Leila from Spain, and Suria, Cris from Brazil. That's right, we have Bolivia in the back, and Anabella from Guatemala. And you've met Emilar. And Ellen from South Africa. Yolanda, and Eduardo. There's Eduardo from Bolivia. We have some of APC's founders. We have Paul Wilson over there. Now, much more important than APC in some respects, but one of the people that -- we have past staff there, we Edie and Vanessa, so you can -- and there's Telakia based in Jordan. You have a spread of people speaking many different languages coming from different perspectives that can you ask about APC.

Any questions before we close? No. Well, on that note, I'm going to -- oh, Steve.

>> STEVE ZELTZER: Yes. Steve Zeltzer from LaborNet, which was around in 1990 when we formed APC. I wanted to say in regard to what we're doing, we're developing an international labor channel, that workers around the world can stream their struggles and issues on the channel live. I think that would really be important.

>> (Off microphone)

>> STEVE ZELTZER: One of the issues that we feel that needs to be addressed in future conferences and discussions is the effect on working people globally as far as new technology, new apps, which are making workers temporary in a temp economy, and it's having a radical effect in advanced companies with workers, and I think this is a growing concern worldwide. We want to help workers and people around the world and not harm their benefits, and I think it's an increasingly important issue globally and particularly in the United States. Thank you.

>> ANRIETTE ESTERHUYSEN: And we're hoping Steve will do a workshop with us at the IGF next year. I want to ask the chair of our board just to thank everyone and close, and then you can all go to your next workshop.

>> JULIAN CASABUENAS: Yeah. Well, on behalf of APC, we want to thank you for attending this session, and we hope that we encourage member organizations and individuals that want to join our job. I want to say that from APC we receive as members in Coronado, a lot of input and a lot of guidance through all these platforms, so we were able to develop projects and activities related to Internet governance, appropriation of technology, Internet rights, women, and much other projects for the last years, so it's a really vibrant network, it's really a lot of energy inside, and we find always somebody willing to support our work and to provide guidance, and so we will be very happy if you can join the association and continue working with us and we're looking into the future to work with all of you.

So thank you for being here, and thank you for sharing this moment with us.

>> ANRIETTE ESTERHUYSEN: Thanks, Julian. There is a sign-up sheet if anybody wants more information. Yolanda, do you have it? I'm not sure who has it. Flavia -- it's at the booth, so you can just leave your name at the APC booth. Thanks very much, everyone.


(Session concluded at 1027)